A Tecumseh Tale

[ebinmaine 62,980]

Lawn boy fuel cap is acceptable. Especially if it was a 2 stroke engine. That just adds to the excellent levelness. 

 

Looks VERY nice. 

 

I wouldn't be concerned about the difference in timing of before and after because there's a significant chance it want right if a PO fiddled with it. 

Lookin forward to hearing it..

[Gregor 4,838]

7 hours ago, 305 said:

that's a nice looking motor, good job.  i look forward to here about how well it runs. 

 

i see you do not have the exhaust brace on yet

 

do you have plans to use it , or are you sticking with the Predator ?

You are right about the brace. I really don't why I don't have it on yet, but it will be soon. If it runs, it will go back on the 656. Of course, then I will have to find another tractor to put under the Predator.

[ebinmaine 62,980]

27 minutes ago, Gregor said:

another tractor to put under the Predator.

Ain't that a shame.....

[Gregor 4,838]

  After initially flooding it, it took  off. I had o take the air cleaner off. I couldn't remember which way was choke on / off. For the record, it has an arrow.Ran a little rough at  first, but with some fiddling on the carb settings, it smoothed right out. I am going to have to get that starter figured out, or get a new one. My 1/2" corded Makita drill has a hard time turning it, and there is no way I could pull start this thing very often.

 

[ebinmaine 62,980]

Well done, sounds great!

 

Take your starter back apart in steps and you might find the place that's bad...

[pfrederi 17,129]

After initially flooding it, it took  off. I had o take the air cleaner off. I couldn't remember which way was choke on / off. For the record, it has an arrow.Ran a little rough at  first, but with some fiddling on the carb settings, it smoothed right out. I am going to have to get that starter figured out, or get a new one. My 1/2" corded Makita drill has a hard time turning it, and there is no way I could pull start this thing very often.

 

 

That is why my Lawn Ranger lost her H-60 back in the 90s.  No ACR on it and got too hard for my father to pull start

[ebinmaine 62,980]

23 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

That is why my Lawn Ranger lost her H-60 back in the 90s.  No ACR on it and got too hard for my father to pull start

What's there now?

[pfrederi 17,129]

54 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

What's there now?

Circa 1992 HH70...By then they had ACR.  Father still didn't want electric start.   I added that when i got the tractor...

[Gregor 4,838]

So, I figured out my starter. Have it back on, but.....It won't spin the motor. I have a brand new battery on it, measures 12.7v. I have the charger on it now. In the mean time I get my drill out to start the motor. Nope. Won't go. Check for spark with my spark tester, I have spark to the plug. Take out the plug, I don't have spark through the plug. Try 3 different plugs. Nope. I have run across this before with 2 cycles, but I don't remember the fix.

[Gregor 4,838]

The Tecumseh H70 has almost reached official status of doorstop. I hate to give up on anything, but this has me stumped. It started that first night, and a couple of time since, but never ran long. I honestly don't know if it's a fuel problem, or an ignition problem anymore. It doesn't help that the Tecumseh Tech Manual gives 2 different BTDC specs. .080 on page 95, and .090 on page 96. Which one should be used?  I have had the flywheel and head off of this thing so many times, I can't count. So many times in fact, I made a flywheel puller. (see tools section) When and if it ever runs again, I plan to get a new head gasket, and new head bolts. One of the things that bother me is the fit of the woodruff key. It is 1/8 by 3/4. It seems to fit very loose. A 5/32 will not begin to fit. Is there such thing as a 9/64 ? If there is, I haven't found one. I ordered new keys from a Tecumseh parts supplier, I guess I'll find out. Before I ever took this motor apart, I marked the timing position. The last time I had the flywheel off, I set the timing there. Didn't help. Then I did something I REALLY hate. I resorted to starting fluid. This is what can happen with starting fluid when things go bad. Snapped my driver bit in 2. I guess I will pull the head and flywheel one more time tonight, and set the timing again. Just not sure what I am going to set it at. Any suggestions?  Thanks Greg

[ebinmaine 62,980]

@pullstart or @pfrederi..... ?

[ZXT 2,394]

You say you aren't getting spark through the plug, but that it broke your driver - which indicates that it kicked back and has spark.

 

Is the condenser in it new? That's definitely where I'd start.

[Tractorhead 8,578]

@Gregor when i see it running it seems very stable and no smoker.

That‘s a great base you have now.

 

When i checked the spark on my H60, i found out that my Ignition sometimes missing a ignition while running.

I checked this with an old car Ignition stobe flasher that indicates pretty well even on the h60 and hh60 engines.

The missing ignition while running could be the condenser or also the Points, but however it was

it‘s not a way i like to go, so i decided to replace the Points and condenser to breakerless ignition.

 

After some research i found it can be done with a simple module. 

I ordered it allready, but it‘s still on the Way.

 

 

about the E- starter

i found the original starter was to weak to turn the Engine at all.

The compression on my Engine indicates that the Engine seems to be worn out.

 

Maybe the stater have a defect on a Coil and/or worn contacts - however.

So i ordered a replacement starter, that turned the Engine much quicker.

but i primary pullstart my Engine, even it have an E- starter.

 

 

For a pullstart- i found a good practice how it can be done simply on my Engine.

when inpulled it immediately full, it sometimes hit my wrist also.

 

So i did it that Way:

 

1. pull choke as needed at least half.

2. Set throttle to 1/3

3. pull first time very gently and slow just a bit over the compression point.

4. than release the pullstartrope back completely and do a fast pull to fire it up.

 

dont forget to switch the ignition on after pull over the compression point.

 

 

with this practice my Engine fires at least on second start allway‘s up.

this practice is also a good protection to your wrist, because Flywheel gets a prerotation for next compressionphase. So even a backfire will not hit that strong to your hand.

 

About that breakerless ignition i will post my results if it was delivered and rewoked in detail.

[Gregor 4,838]

In my last attempt I set the timing at .080. Spun it with my drill, it coughed, and that was it. Sheared a key. It has new points, and plug, no one in town had a condenser. That brings me to a question. Are all condenser basically the same?  I have a lot of Lawnboy condensers. If I can securely mount a condenser will it work? Is a condenser a condenser. regardless of what it's from? I would really like to change to breakerless ignition. I have never found a kit for a Tecumseh. I have new points, condenser, and coil on order. I am totally confused on this motor. It started right up that first day, seemed to run fairly well. When I tried to start it again, it sheared a key, and hasn't really run since.

[ZXT 2,394]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

In my last attempt I set the timing at .080. Spun it with my drill, it coughed, and that was it. Sheared a key. It has new points, and plug, no one in town had a condenser. That brings me to a question. Are all condenser basically the same?  I have a lot of Lawnboy condensers. If I can securely mount a condenser will it work? Is a condenser a condenser. regardless of what it's from? I would really like to change to breakerless ignition. I have never found a kit for a Tecumseh. I have new points, condenser, and coil on order. I am totally confused on this motor. It started right up that first day, seemed to run fairly well. When I tried to start it again, it sheared a key, and hasn't really run since.

Put one of the Lawnboy condensers on it. They aren't particular. You can always change it to the new one that you have ordered if you can't mount it very well.

I've seen condensers cause backfiring, kicking back, and spark that wouldn't fire under compression. Hopefully your issue is as simple as swapping out a condenser. 

[wallfish 15,912]

Just a logical guess but if it's kicking back then the timing is advanced too far so setting at 0.090 would probably be better.  BUT, that loose flywheel key is a problem since that key is part of the timing as it's only function is to locate the flywheel in the correct timing position. It's not supposed to keep the flywheel from spinning on the shaft, the taper on the shaft is what locks it in place. Make sure those surfaces are clean and dry. I'm a backyard hammer mechanic so I would file that 5/32 key to make it fit tight. I'm sure that a loose flywheel key can offset the timing 0.010 or more depending how loose it is. 

You had it going real nice in the video so it's close. On the bright side you will be a Tecumseh timing expert by the time you're done! 

[Tractorhead 8,578]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

In my last attempt I set the timing at .080. Spun it with my drill, it coughed, and that was it. Sheared a key. It has new points, and plug, no one in town had a condenser. That brings me to a question. Are all condenser basically the same?  I have a lot of Lawnboy condensers. If I can securely mount a condenser will it work? Is a condenser a condenser. regardless of what it's from? I would really like to change to breakerless ignition. I have never found a kit for a Tecumseh. I have new points, condenser, and coil on order. I am totally confused on this motor. It started right up that first day, seemed to run fairly well. When I tried to start it again, it sheared a key, and hasn't really run since.

 

Firstly condensers are available in different Values.

The most ignition condensers are in typically closer Range, so i would not see a bigger Problem to try another

if it can safely be mounted.

 

I be sure i‘m not the first who‘s try to implement a breakerless ignition on a tecky engine.

I can imagine, there is a dealer here, who sell‘s this modules.

but after inserting that module the ignition must be set bit more to bdc to get the engine to run.

 

 

 

About your troubles with the sheared key

depending on the reason what give the impulse to be sheared it can have different causes.

Mainly the flywheel was not tighten enough or was maybe before wrong reinstalled,

the key can have a invisible crack and be after first run finally be sheared.

[Gregor 4,838]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

Just a logical guess but if it's kicking back then the timing is advanced too far so setting at 0.090 would probably be better.

I don't know much about what I am doing, but I have been thinking on it a lot. I had it set at .080 when it sheared the key. Possibly from firing too soon. Would setting it at .090 not make it fire .010 quicker, firing even sooner? This is BTDC. If I am thinking wrong or backwards, someone please tell me.

[wallfish 15,912]

30 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I don't know much about what I am doing, but I have been thinking on it a lot. I had it set at .080 when it sheared the key. Possibly from firing too soon. Would setting it at .090 not make it fire .010 quicker, firing even sooner? This is BTDC. If I am thinking wrong or backwards, someone please tell me.

Sorry, you're correct!!!

Fixing the key and maybe some points adjustment should be able to retard it some

[305 379]

Tractorhead....what is this module to convert from points to breakerless on a Tecumseh H60?

[Gregor 4,838]

I won't bore you with all the details of what I did, but I will tell you, it involved multiple plugs, 2 sets of points, and 2 condensers. The end result is, with the plug NGK BR2 LM, spinning it with my drill, I have no spark. With a NGK B4 LM, (Lawnboy plug) and a Champion H10C, I have spark at low RPM. If I spin it fast, no spark. That's where I stand. I guess I will have to wait for my new coil, points and condenser to get here, but that could take a week or more.  In the mean time I am going to investigate the possibility of putting the Kohler K161 on the 656. I have learned a lot working on this Tecumseh. The most important thing I learned is DON'T.   Get a Kohler, if you can find one.

[slim67 2,730]

37 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I won't bore you with all the details of what I did, but I will tell you, it involved multiple plugs, 2 sets of points, and 2 condensers. The end result is, with the plug NGK BR2 LM, spinning it with my drill, I have no spark. With a NGK B4 LM, (Lawnboy plug) and a Champion H10C, I have spark at low RPM. If I spin it fast, no spark. That's where I stand. I guess I will have to wait for my new coil, points and condenser to get here, but that could take a week or more.  In the mean time I am going to investigate the possibility of putting the Kohler K161 on the 656. I have learned a lot working on this Tecumseh. The most important thing I learned is DON'T.   Get a Kohler, if you can find one.

You certainly gave it hell trying to get it running. I just finished another clone conversion because the Tecumseh was beyond saving. I'm not that much of a purist or rivet counter since most of my tractors aren't collectors items. But I do want to use them when I need to and not be dealing with a finicky engine. The clones are inexpensive and run great.

[Tractorhead 8,578]

3 hours ago, 305 said:

Tractorhead....what is this module to convert from points to breakerless on a Tecumseh H60?

 

 

 

This thing is called a nova -2 electronic ignition module

 

the connection is as simple as it can be.

there is a negative terminal and a positive terminal on it.

 

They send it with a simple to understand leaflet.

 

 

on the negative terminal the wire with premounted groundconnector will be connected and mounted with the module together to ground on Engine.

If you remove the points, the place of the Points can be used and the former points screw can be used as connection place.

 

The Terminal with the plus mark will be connected on the wire from the ignition coil ( magneto) that normally goes to the points and the condenser and replaces them both.

The wire nut in the Set is for connecting this both wires together, but i will connect it by Crimp mounts.

 

that‘s it, Hardwareparts mostly be done.

 

At least the complete ignition module will be moved little in advance direction for about 1,5 to 2 mm turned with the complete mounting plate.

That means you have to Bring the ignition little more advanced of BTDC so ignition is a bit earlier than with points

 

that‘s it.

 

 

At this steps you can remove the points forever and the condenser and no points setup must be done after that conversion. So it’s cheap and simple Way to bring a points ignition to breakerless.

 

mine is on it‘s Way and i will make a short Video with the How To when it arrives.

 

the technics behind is a simple voltage dependent switch.

 

while the magnet passes the magneto Coil a voltage of up to 250V on the Triggerwire will be occur.

 

If this Voltage reaches a defined voltage level i guess 200V a electronic Switch acts an shorts the wire to ground until magnetic field collapses and a spark will be inducted.

 

Bang - Spark

than the same process again on each revolution, just without any Points.

 

A simple electronic device, that if correct installed - is a genius solution.

 

[ebinmaine 62,980]

3 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

 

 

 

This thing is called a nova -2 electronic ignition module

 

the connection is as simple as it can be.

there is a negative terminal and a positive terminal on it.

 

They send it with a simple to understand leaflet.

 

 

on the negative terminal the wire with premounted groundconnector will be connected and mounted with the module together to ground on Engine.

If you remove the points, the place of the Points can be used and the former points screw can be used as connection place.

 

The Terminal with the plus mark will be connected on the wire from the ignition coil ( magneto) that normally goes to the points and the condenser and replaces them both.

The wire nut in the Set is for connecting this both wires together, but i will connect it by Crimp mounts.

 

that‘s it, Hardwareparts mostly be done.

 

At least the complete ignition module will be moved little in advance direction for about 1,5 to 2 mm turned with the complete mounting plate.

That means you have to Bring the ignition little more advanced of BTDC so ignition is a bit earlier than with points

 

that‘s it.

 

 

At this steps you can remove the points forever and the condenser and no points setup must be done after that conversion. So it’s cheap and simple Way to bring a points ignition to breakerless.

 

mine is on it‘s Way and i will make a short Video with the How To when it arrives.

 

the technics behind is a simple voltage dependent switch.

 

while the magnet passes the magneto Coil a voltage of up to 250V on the Triggerwire will be occur.

 

If this Voltage reaches a defined voltage level i guess 200V a electronic Switch acts an shorts the wire to ground until magnetic field collapses and a spark will be inducted.

 

Bang - Spark

than the same process again on each revolution, just without any Points.

 

A simple electronic device, that if correct installed - is a genius solution.

 

We have one of these in a Briggs and Stratton that works great but it has no charging system hence no extra magnets. 

 

 

I'm really hoping your Tecumseh engine WITH a charging system will be able to use the module. If you're successful I'll likely try one on Trina's techie at some point. 

[305 379]

And they told you that it would work with the H60 with two magnets in the flywheel?