A Tecumseh Tale

[Gregor 4,838]

An AC bulb. Ahead of the diodes?

[Tractorhead 8,571]

Yap

 

Any Car bulb with about 10Watts

Edited January 19, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

I didn't think an automotive bulb was AC, but I tried it anyway. Either coil will make the bulb glow. Both coils make it really glow.  Connect bulb to DC volts, nothing.

 

I think I'll have another beer.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Gregor

[Tractorhead 8,571]

That means you coils deliver output even under Load.

so far the facts, but it seems something is wrong with your diode directions.

to use the Coils you may need just one diode.

put one lead to ground and the other to one diode input.

 

now you should be able to measure between GND Ground and the Output of one diode about 19V DC.

 

If you measure - 19V DC change the diode direction.

Do that without connecting the Charging output to any Tractorpart first to find the right direction.

 

To light a 10W Bulb, your coil must deliver arround 0,8A

If it‘s only glows, your Coil is Working, but it drops the Voltage under Load.

 

you can also measure while connecting a Bulb and the meter parallel together the Voltage.

That Value show‘s you, how deep the Voltage under a 0,8 A Load will be dropped.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

To light a 10W Bulb, your coil must deliver arround 0,8A

If it‘s only glows, your Coil is Working, but it drops the Voltage under Load.

 

I have no idea what wattage the bulb is. It is an automotive tail light bulb.

 

but it seems something is wrong with your diode directions.

The diodes are made so they will only install in one direction

 

I am thinking about getting myself a bridge rectifier, and installing that after the AC volts, and see what that does.Use it, instead of the diodes.

[Tractorhead 8,571]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

To light a 10W Bulb, your coil must deliver arround 0,8A

If it‘s only glows, your Coil is Working, but it drops the Voltage under Load.

 

I have no idea what wattage the bulb is. It is an automotive tail light bulb.

the Wattage normally is lasered or printed on the Bulbsocket on the side.

it could be a 21W Bulb also ( typically here used for brakelights) 

taillight is here normally something about 5-10Watts.

But however it glows, that means your Coil‘s are working with whatever Wattage.

Congrats for that, you got Success.

 

Quote

but it seems something is wrong with your diode directions.

The diodes are made so they will only install in one direction

 

I am thinking about getting myself a bridge rectifier, and installing that after the AC volts, and see what that does.Use it, instead of the diodes.

Yap, simplest Way to get a quick result. 

If you use a Bridge rectifier, you can leave it Ground free, that means both Coil leads on both AC pins.

The Ground pin to Ground and finally if your tests are successfully be done, the positive pin of the Bridge to the ACC pin on the Key

But before connecting to anything check it first stand allone ( maybe just grounded to make things easier to handle)

 

you be on the best Way to solve your Charging Equippment at Yourself, Great 👍

.

 

at the end of the Day it is interesting what Wattage that bulb have, to find out,

What Wattage your charging system can deliver in witch circumstances.

 

i hope you understand my non native language descriptions.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

I got to thinking and remembering. I have a selenium rectifier. I just had to remember which poles were AC in, and which were DC out. It's been over 20 years.  But I figured it out. This rectifier was originally used on a 110 volt AC input system, with 90 volts DC output for a PTO drive. I also don't know if this rectifier can handle the amp load of a low voltage system. I anit that smart.  I didn't know what kind of voltage drop to expect. I hooked it up to the AC output of the coils. I have 18 volts DC output. That should be enough to charge any battery. The only trouble is, I have no way to regulate it. I can't simply remove a diode, as I am not using them. If I start to cook my battery, I will have to get a voltage regulator, of some kind. Tomorrow I will try to install the selenium rectifier in line to the battery, and see what voltage I have at the battery, with, and without the charging system. I may fry the rectifier instantly. I have no idea.

I still don't understand why I have no DC volts through my diodes, but that's for bigger brains than mine to figure out. The diodes are made so they can only be installed in one direction. I tried reversing them anyway. No luck.

[Gregor 4,838]

The 1157 is a dual filament lamp. The 27 Watt part is for stop/turn and the 8 Watt part is for taillight.

[R Scheer 499]

Just a thought, you can buy rectifier/regulators.  Scooters and seadoos use them.  4 wires, 2 to your coil, +- to the battery all packaged in a waterproof package.  

[Tractorhead 8,571]

5 hours ago, R Scheer said:

Just a thought, you can buy rectifier/regulators.  Scooters and seadoos use them.  4 wires, 2 to your coil, +- to the battery all packaged in a waterproof package.  

 

You nail it.

 

a Scooter regulator is more as cheap and can definitely handle your Needs.

that is also the Solution i go on my Charging system.

That is a Rectifier/ regulator combo with a very small footprint.

 

Maybe like that ( just as sample for what you should be searching)

https://www.amazon.de/Stecker-Regler-Gleichrichter-Keenso-Scooter/dp/B07WRS1YDF/ref=asc_df_B07WRS1YDF/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=454055966043&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2314365745096806299&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9042443&hvtargid=pla-932165352140&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

 

That is the simplest Way.

 

or maybe in this Way 

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07K1L1B5X/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07K1L1B5X&pd_rd_w=IAtmh&pf_rd_p=ccd28f9e-d8b5-47b4-b7f0-1fec33772a6c&pd_rd_wg=DWJQX&pf_rd_r=5CCMQGHZNZWJZ2FJNB88&pd_rd_r=66360255-c3cc-4ad5-ae9b-d317db9ccca6&smid=A2RKDP48E4HB6&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUVI3WjBYMTlOSTVGJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTYxMDE0MVBCUExGUDZXRUExRyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkyNjkxRjhDOThUUkhGTTdSJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

This are 2 suggestions you can use.

 

i use the second system

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

I ordered this. I didn't find the exact one you posted. Hopefully, it will work.

regulator/rectifier

[Gregor 4,838]

I have waited a week to post this. I wanted to be sure. Last Tuesday (I think) I put the H70 back on the 656. Everything was good. I started it a few times, just to hear it run. Come out Wednesday morning, pops right off.Wednesday afternoon, would nut start. HUH? Get my spark tester out. It has spark through the tester, not through the plug. Oh No.......I can't go through all this again. Open it up to check timing. It's still good. Call my small engine guy for a new spark plug and new points. I install them, put it back together, starts right up. It has started several times a day for a week now. No issues.

I never really liked the way the points went in when I got them, even though they were new. My small engine guy told me they were a Tecumseh part, but I wonder. He gave them to me in a plastic bag. I had to tap the plastic block into the groove with a hammer and punch. The nut that secures the wires was metric, With these new points, it has never failed. I am thinking the first new set I got from my small engine guy were simply bad, or maybe not for this motor at all. I believe ALL the trouble I has with this thing, was due to those points. Moral of the story, DON'T A;WAYS TRUST NEW PARTS !

[ebinmaine 62,959]

23 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Moral of the story, DON'T A;WAYS TRUST NEW PARTS

It's baffling to me how many times I've heard over the years that it can't be such and such because I just replaced it.

 

I sold Auto Parts for 12 years in various environments. Retail, jobber, and dealership.

 

I can't even begin to say the count of how many times I had to tell somebody

 

NEVER ASSUME A NEW PART IS A WORKING PART

 

Even the top quality names in the automotive aftermarket back in the '90s had an ACCEPTABLE DEFECT RATE of up to 2%.

 

 

NEVER NEVER NEVER ASSUME A NEW PART IS A PROPERLY WORKING PART

 

 

 

Another thing I learned very early in my career was that lack of care and maintenance was widespread beyond belief.

Many many times we would have people coming in asking if we could read codes or knew somebody that did it. The first question out of my mouth was almost always,

 

When was the last time a tune-up was done?

 

Silence and befuddlement would assuredly be their answer. 

 

This was well before the days of platinum plugs.

We would regularly see mid-80s vehicles with 100,000 plus city/town miles. Nothing ever done to them.

 

 

[ebinmaine 62,959]

Nice work on catching those points. I say again, your patience and perseverance is admirable to say the least.

[Gregor 4,838]

@Tractorhead  Do you think, if I hook this selenium rectifier up to my battery, and I burn up the rectifier, it will damage anything else?  Coils?  Battery?

[Tractorhead 8,571]

7 hours ago, Gregor said:

@Tractorhead  Do you think, if I hook this selenium rectifier up to my battery, and I burn up the rectifier, it will damage anything else?  Coils?  Battery?

 

One of the importantst Things first in my opinion,

never connect any Things to a Battery without a Fuse.

The value of the fuse should save the Wires in case something goes Wrong.

 

 

The selenium rectifier will work maybe, but i don‘t know if it can last the charging Load,

a estimate will say yes, it can work but...

When it stinks it‘s dead, that‘s fact. 😎

I would use a inline fuse with 3 A max for the first Testrun.

 

Do you remember my simple charging system with the Highcurrent Diode and the Condenser?

I made a small Vid. About my simple rectifier/ Charging System.

i will bring it onto youtube and will post it the next hour.

 

[Tractorhead 8,571]

 

 

Here you can see how it Works.

 

the Voltage drop after shutdown will end a bit under 5 Volts, because the LED‘s will not work below that Voltage.

The capacitor will keep that Voltage for about several Minutes.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

"When it stinks it‘s dead, that‘s fact."

I know all too well the smell of a bad selenium rectifier. On my machines, if one went out, you knew 10 feet before you ever got to the machine.

 

"I would use a inline fuse with 3 A max for the first Testrun."

The smallest fuse I had was 5 amp. I used it. So far, no problem.

 

Here is what I have.

Voltage from stator,  22.5 volts AC @3600 RPM     No DC volts

 

Voltage from selenium rectifier 22.5 volts DC @3600 RPM    10.4 volts AC

 

Voltage across battery, tractor not running, 12.4 volts DC

 

Voltage across battery, tractor running @3600 RPM with selenium rectifier hooked up,  12.4 DC volts.  I would have expected it to go up.

 

DC volts from diodes   0

 

It's getting a little foggy in here...........

 

Now I want chrome wheels for my C-141

Edited January 21, 2021 by Gregor

[R Scheer 499]

What is the voltage at the selenium rectifier when it's hooked up.  If still 19V bad connection to battery.  If 12.4 V maybe your charge current is too low to raise the battery voltage.  Can you put an ammeter in series between the rectifier and the battery?  You mention diodes, are these wired into your circuit, if so where?

[Gregor 4,838]

11 minutes ago, R Scheer said:

What is the voltage at the selenium rectifier when it's hooked up. Voltage from selenium rectifier 22.5 volts DC @3600 RPM   If still 19V bad connection to battery.  If 12.4 V maybe your charge current is too low to raise the battery voltage.  Can you put an ammeter in series between the rectifier and the battery? My meter will only measure mili Amps. 500 max You mention diodes, are these wired into your circuit, if so where? Not with the rectifier. Only after 22 ac volts from stator

 

[R Scheer 499]

Can you make a quick sketch of what you've wired? A picture, a thousand words, something like that anyways. 

[Tractorhead 8,571]

At first, i was little unsure, because of Voltagedrops on Selen rectifiers.

it was long time ago i did last experiments with them, but i thought to imagine, they drop lot’s of Voltage.

 

After checking my old Schematics, i found in my old descriptions 

a Selen diode drops the Voltage at nominal 5V compared to silicium 0,7V or low power Schottkey less than 0,7V.

 

that means on a unloaded System you will see the function on a Meter,

but if you connect a Battery to recharge it you be possibly too low in Voltage after the Seleen rectifier to charge. 

that was my reason i show you my simple rectifier.

 

Try to show you a how to 

 

                             Diotec Schottky-Diode - Gleichrichter SB560 DO-201

                                    60 V 5A

 

AC in  —————————>|——————*—-———DC Out +

                                                                   |

                                                                   |

                                                                   |

                                 Capacitor.                 =      220uF / 40V.... 400V  i use what i have, so mine was 400V

                                                                   |

                                                                   |

                                                                   |

AC in ————————————————*————— GND 

           

That is the simple one way rectifier i used in that Vid

[Gregor 4,838]

wiring scenario 2.odg

[Gregor 4,838]

Please ignore the previous post. I tried to edit it, but I couldn't.

 

There is no where in my town to find diodes, and capacitors. I may have to make a road trip.

 

Here is what I have.

 

 

I just thought of something. Does my rectifier have to be case grounded?

Edited January 21, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,838]

I checked my diodes with a 9 volt battery. They test good.

 

I have 9vdc through the diodes in one direction only

Edited January 21, 2021 by Gregor