416-8 tranny pops out of gear then back in

[UncleT 2]

Howdy guys, been years since I’ve been on here posting had to reset things. Anyway, have a problem with my 1991 416-8 tractor hoping y’all might have an answer too before I tear this thing apart.....

 

While mowing down a hill, my tractor seems to goes out of gear, coasting, goes about a foot or two and reengages. Then, when you go up a hill, it hestitates, then reengages. Belts are near new and clutch and seems to be working ok. 

 

Any ideas?   Thanks for any replies. 

[johnnymag3 2,441]

Sounds to me like this is a hydro...is it a 4 speed tractor with High And Low gear???        Ive never seen a manual unit coast then go back into gear all on its own, also there seems to be weird things going on if it comes out of gear, then goes back in on its own going uphill ??? Need more clarification Sir.

 

Thanks, John

[Bill D 1,599]

Clean the ends of the hubs and input shaft.  Mark the hubs and axle along with the pulley and input shaft.  Drive the tractor then check if the marks you made are still alligned.  If not then you have a sheared key on either your input shaft or axle shafts.

I agree with John that the behavior you describe sounds more like hydro behavior.  Bill

[stevasaurus 22,229]

He said it was an 8 speed, so...no way this is popping in and out of gear.  It has to be the wood ruff keys and slop between the wheel hubs and the axles.  I doubt it is the input pulley and shaft.  The good thing is, you do not have to open the transmission.  Do what Bill said and then pull the tires and hubs...check the key ways and keys.  

[UncleT 2]

I have a feeling the Woodreff Key isn’t suppose to look like this, is it? 
 

Thanks for the replies and help fellas. The shaft turns for about a quarter of a turn then it catches wheel. 
 

Any ideas how to get this thing off with destroying the shaft? 
 

And I notice the right side axle is about two inches from the axle housing but flush on the left side, is that normal for these machines? 
 

 

[RJ Hamner 992]

There are things NOT to do. The hubs are cast iron and can fracture making the part unusable.  Try soaking it in PB Blaster or another like product for a day or two then with a rubber hammer try tapping the hub to get it off the axle. If this fails your going to need the CORRECT type of tool to remove it. There is a section on the site for special tools/owner made tools that will give you some ideas as to the correct way to remove the hub.

Don't ask me how I know so much about shattered hubs.  Been there. Done that. 

[Bill D 1,599]

I would try removing that key with a pair of side cutting pliers.  Use them to rock it up and out. Plan to purchase a new key when you do that.  You will need to make a puller to get that hub off.  There are pictures of various types of pullers on here.  Buy new set screws as well.

 

Also, the clutch return spring in the last photo is incorrect.  It looks to be very weak.  That would cause belt slippage which would also cause the problems you are having on hills.  Please post some more pictures of the clutch return spring as the linkage may not be hooked up properly from what I can see.  The spring hooks into the small hole on the arm, and the trunnion in the large hole at the top.   Bill

 

[RJ Hamner 992]

I just remembered that I took a picture if the tool I made to remove hubs.

The whole idea is to keep even pressure on the part during the process.

The plate looks pretty heavy duty (the wife tells me that I tend to "over build.  I just call it "Hell for Stout) but that's what I had in the scrap bin. 

The all thread and nuts are from Tractor Supply.

[UncleT 2]

20 minutes ago, RJ Hamner said:

There are things NOT to do. The hubs are cast iron and can fracture making the part unusable.  Try soaking it in PB Blaster or another like product for a day or two then with a rubber hammer try tapping the hub to get it off the axle. If this fails your going to need the CORRECT type of tool to remove it. There is a section on the site for special tools/owner made tools that will give you some ideas as to the correct way to remove the hub.

Don't ask me how I know so much about shattered hubs.  Been there. Done that. 
 

😆 been there that’s why I don’t want to be there again. But I’m trying figure out to get key out of there. The back of the hub is jammed against the back of the housing and the key which is jammed into the axle. Still figuring. Thanks for your reply. 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by UncleT

[stevasaurus 22,229]

@UncleT, you have to get the key out of there first.  Usually, I would grab the key with a pair of side cutters and pry out...try that first.  Second, take an old chisel and hit it with a 2 lb ball peen hammer right into the key...coming at it from the length of the axle and then pry.  The key is soft metal and it may just come out doing this method.  Third, cut that key with a saws-all or hack saw and file it smooth to the axle...now you can try to pull the hub off the axle.    Make sure you file any burrs on the end of the axle also.

    Your right side hub looks like it is OK.  The hub should be flush with the end of the axle.  

[squonk 38,916]

Here is a pic of the hub puller I made. I use a fine thread screw for more pulling power.

 

[troutbum70 857]

Here in my area it is hard to find material that size in fine thread without a special order or buy online.

[UncleT 2]

Thanks guys, blasted it with rust breaker, letting it sit for a while and will get on it. Great info. Much appreciated. Will let y’all know how it goes, 

 

Great looking pullers y’all made their Gronk and Supporter.. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by UncleT

[squonk 38,916]

1 hour ago, troutbum63 said:

Here in my area it is hard to find material that size in fine thread without a special order or buy online.

McMaster - Carr

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-rods/high-strength-steel-threaded-rods-8/thread-type~unf/thread-size~3-4-16/

[WHX?? 46,739]

Check the keyway in the hub once you get it off, pretty good chance it's banged up. Let us know if it is I can cut a new keyway in if needed. 

[pfrederi 17,147]

Do not try to hammer the hub off.  Only  a snap ring holds the axle into the differential .  Beat outwards on the hub it will probably let go and the axle will come out then you have a bigger project....

[953 nut 51,656]

Here is a puller that works wonders

[troutbum70 857]

9 hours ago, squonk said:

McMaster - Carr

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-rods/high-strength-steel-threaded-rods-8/thread-type~unf/thread-size~3-4-16/

Thank you for the link

[UncleT 2]

Well guys, with a little patients and persistence I got her apart. Just waiting for a new axle seal and retention clutch spring to put her back together. The woodreff key is even in good shape. The hub finally broke loose and slipped right off. Got lucky on this one..... Appreciate all the help and advice. You guys are great. Need more folks as gracious as y’all. 
 

I had a neighbor tell me to use brake fluid as a rust buster if the the rust blaster didn’t work. Not sure if that’s what did it, but after I did that, and let it set for 48 hours, it popped. So, there’s that if you never tried that before. I never heard of it before he suggested it. 🤔 
 

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