Batteries for all your collection?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

3 minutes ago, TC10284 said:

I would not run a lithium jump starter for long (more than a few minutes). I've had one overcharge and blow up in mine. I had to end up replacing my entire 416-8 (M16) wiring harness from the fire. 

Holy crap!  I just started a thread on Lithium Jump packs asking for thoughts and experiences.  I often leave my lead acid jumper hooked up to charge it a bit.  Might a a habit to break with a lithium!

[TC10284 109]

9 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Holy crap!  I just started a thread on Lithium Jump packs asking for thoughts and experiences.  I often leave my lead acid jumper hooked up to charge it a bit.  Might a a habit to break with a lithium!

 

Yeah, I had ran it a while using the lithium battery pack while mowing a bit and so it was entirely my fault. By the time I smelled the lithium, it was too late to kill everything.

Stupid mistake...

 

Regardless, I'd never use one anymore to do more than start a mower, tractor, or car, let it run a few min, then switch over to a lead acid. Or just stick to using a lead acid booster. 

 

[TC10284 109]

As a side note, I've tested starting some of my 300, 400, and 500 series with a battery as small as a UB12180 (12v 8aH) AGM (I think) battery . It worked fine.

Although I'm nervous to run it too long with that too. Concerned it would be too small to handle continuous charge while running WOT for a while, like mowing. 

 

Although I assume it would just boil out the acid in the battery and melt vs explode. I don't really know. I'm not willing to try. I'd consider it on a 211-3, but the dang gas tank is right above the battery, so...that's a no-go there.

Edited December 23, 2020 by TC10284

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

38 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Diodes?  For some reason after 50 years I still hook up cables backwards!  Always did like fireworks...  You didn't try that did you?  Diode or fuse in the cable should be fixable.  I've done quite a bit of research and I want a lithium jump pack but I don't want to just blow $100 either.  Probably should start a new thread...

No, didn't do that, they are known for blowing the diodes for high amps

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 minute ago, Maxwell-8 said:

No, didn't do that, they are known for blowing the diodes for high amps

So definitely a diode?  Look easy enough to replace?

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

8 minutes ago, TC10284 said:

As a side note, I've tested starting some of my 300, 400, and 500 series with a battery as small as a UB12180 (12v 8aH) AGM (I think) battery . It worked fine.

Although I'm nervous to run it too long with that too. Concerned it would be too small to handle continuous charge while running WOT for a while, like mowing. 

 

Although I assume it would just boil out the acid in the battery and melt vs explode. I don't really know. I'm not willing to try. I'd consider it on a 211-3, but the dang gas tank is right above the battery, so...that's a no-go there.

I stick with the regulary lead acid, the  AGM are in mine opinion weaker, they do handle a deeper drain better

Edited December 23, 2020 by Maxwell-8

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

Just now, DennisThornton said:

So definitely a diode?  Look easy enough to replace?

Yes, but i am gone run without

[DennisThornton 4,769]

8 minutes ago, TC10284 said:

As a side note, I've tested starting some of my 300, 400, and 500 series with a battery as small as a UB12180 (12v 8aH) AGM (I think) battery . It worked fine.

Although I'm nervous to run it too long with that too. Concerned it would be too small to handle continuous charge while running WOT for a while, like mowing. 

 

Although I assume it would just boil out the acid in the battery and melt vs explode. I don't really know. I'm not willing to try. I'd consider it on a 211-3, but the dang gas tank is right above the battery, so...that's a no-go there.

I think AGMs do better with a slightly different charge method but I think they will work as a replacement for the regular SLA battery.  After all one can buy AGMs for a cars and trucks from most part suppliers

[DennisThornton 4,769]

2 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Yes, but i am gone run without

Are they there so "I" can't make sparks?  To prevent reversing current?

[TC10284 109]

Just now, DennisThornton said:

I think AGMs do better with a slightly different charge method but I think they will work as a replacement for the regular SLA battery.  After all one can buy AGMs for a cars and trucks from most part suppliers

 

Yep. I've put in a UB12350 35aH AGM and it works fine.

One like these. 
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=UB12350&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

 

More expensive, definitely, than a 400cca battery from O'Reilly or Walmart, but I figured I could just take this out and use it on a solar panel for something when not being used by a tractor. 

[Vurge 157]

I've gotten to the point where I'm considering a12v lithium battery (smaller and lighter than lead acid) that I can just move from tractor to tractor.  For convenience I'd put Anderson type plugs on the battery and tractors.  

[TC10284 109]

8 minutes ago, Vurge said:

I've gotten to the point where I'm considering a12v lithium battery (smaller and lighter than lead acid) that I can just move from tractor to tractor.  For convenience I'd put Anderson type plugs on the battery and tractors.  

 

I would advise against that for running long periods, unless it has a built-in charge controller. 

See my posts above.

[Vurge 157]

4 minutes ago, TC10284 said:

 

I would advise against that for running long periods, unless it has a built-in charge controller. 

See my posts above.

Oh I missed that.  I've been looking at the lithium motorcycle batteries on Amazon and just assumed they were plug and play.  I guess I'll read up on it some more. 

[TC10284 109]

3 minutes ago, Vurge said:

Oh I missed that.  I've been looking at the lithium motorcycle batteries on Amazon and just assumed they were plug and play.  I guess I'll read up on it some more. 

 

One of the easiest and better fitting batteries I've found is a UB12180. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=UB12180&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Has grips on the top too. Just need to find a way to quickly connect/disconnect it. 

 

I've used one of these in a 414-8 before, for mowing for hours and it worked perfect. 

[WHNJ701 4,164]

I have been using these in the limited use tractors. It's small 7x3x7. This one came out of a booster box, recharge lead/acid 

[TC10284 109]

20 minutes ago, Vurge said:

Oh I missed that.  I've been looking at the lithium motorcycle batteries on Amazon and just assumed they were plug and play.  I guess I'll read up on it some more. 

 

Looking at the motorcycle lithium batteries, they look pretty interesting. It says it has a battery management system.

I would assume that if they are made for starting motorcycles, etc, they would be just fine to use and should have it's own built in charge controller. 

They're definitely expensive but I'd be interesting in trying one sometime.  

[TC10284 109]

1 minute ago, jabelman said:

I have been using these in the limited use tractors. It's small 7x3x7. This one came out of a booster box, recharge lead/acid 

 

 

Yep, that's the UB12180!

[adsm08 1,431]

My collection is not nearly that extensive. I only have five tractors, and one is going to be for sale once it runs. Two of the other four are in pieces, so I don't need to worry about batteries for them just yet. But I get U1 batteries for like $20 a piece.

[ebinmaine 63,095]

1 hour ago, TC10284 said:

. Just need to find a way to quickly connect/disconnect it. 

 

1 hour ago, Vurge said:

put Anderson type plugs on the battery and tractors.  

 

[ohiofarmer 3,157]

 I just got a miata battery from my buddy. It is a nice one-a sealed unit. I put it on the 1.5 Shoemaker charger last night. it started out at 4 volts and is now approaching twelve volts. Usually a dead one with one cell shorted wont go that high, so maybe it will come back all the way. The manufacture date on that battery is Dec 1919. he drives his Tesla and let the other car sit too long.

  Lesson there somewhere.

[Vurge 157]

On 12/23/2020 at 5:11 AM, DennisThornton said:

I think I've found that the bigger AMP batteries last longer.  I suppose that as the smaller AMP ones fail they have too little left where the 420 AMPs fail but still have 200A or so left in them.

I agree with you there.  I modified my Craftsman GT5000 to take a small car battery.  Battery is from 2013!  Never had a U1 battery last that long. 

[Tractorhead 8,610]

17 hours ago, TC10284 said:

 

Looking at the motorcycle lithium batteries, they look pretty interesting. It says it has a battery management system.

I would assume that if they are made for starting motorcycles, etc, they would be just fine to use and should have it's own built in charge controller. 

They're definitely expensive but I'd be interesting in trying one sometime.  

 

Sounds like you learmed the Lesson the hard Way.

 

A Lithium Battery allway‘s requires urgently any Battery Management System (BMS).

Some battery types have them built in ( i.eg. for Motocycles some for RV) some don‘t.

but before charging a Lithium System - independently if Lipo, lifepo, lifepoy, or even liti you have firstly to check

what kind of BMS is required.

as a thumb rule, you can mostly see it on the Max.Current they can be support.

 

Battery with high Power have to have an external BMS, otherwise they can not support with such high Amperages.

On Starterpacks the chargeport is normally restricted once by the Charger/ Chargerinput.

that passes not the discharging leads, to be able to support that much Power as they Did.

 

So this Starterpacks can be used, but the Charging port must be separated from the rest of the Tracta,

what normally not a Way a Standart tracta goes.

 

btw, i didn‘t like a lithium burner on any of my Vehicles.

i work with simple VRLA Battery since years with best results even on my Racing quad, Motocycle, and all my Tractas.

 

Lithium batteries have the ability to be charged with all power they get.

The problem is hereby the Inner Batterytemp also.

That is one of my hardest dis in my opinion.

- never recharge a Lithium Battery with full current below 0*C Batt temp, otherwise a self ignition can be occurs on Lithium batts.

That is also a reason, they must be temp protected what is normally also included in a BMS.

 

So Lithium battery‘s are giant powerstorage, but not sensefully be usable for all envoirements.

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

18 hours ago, TC10284 said:

 

Looking at the motorcycle lithium batteries, they look pretty interesting. It says it has a battery management system.

I would assume that if they are made for starting motorcycles, etc, they would be just fine to use and should have it's own built in charge controller. 

They're definitely expensive but I'd be interesting in trying one sometime.  

don't be fooled, watch out for the capacity, often they are 1/3 of the capacity off what they claim.

 

I have had experience with blowing up lithium  

[19richie66 16,942]

Anderson plugs are great.
 

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-sb-connectors-sb120-120amp

Edited January 2, 2021 by 19richie66

[ebinmaine 63,095]

38 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

Anderson plugs are great.
 

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-sb-connectors-sb120-120amp

Agreed. 

I got similar ones of a different make and still commercial grade to use on some things here.  

Certainly appears to be very heavy duty and easy to disconnect for convenience or emergency.