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Searcher60

69 Electro key? Ignition switch?

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Searcher60

Hello everybody. Just got a 69 Electro, no key. I have tried the standard WH key, no joy. The ignition switch is magneto ignition type, WITH SCREW TERMINALS ON THE BACK. I suspect the switch is good if I had the correct key. Anybody know the correct key? Anybody know the correct part number for an ignition switch with screw terminals? I’d rather not cut all the wires and put spade terminals on. Also, I do have a starter solenoid. Thanks in advance!

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ebinmaine

69 Electro

With a magneto....

Kohler?

Tecumseh?

 

I'm thinking if you have screw terminals AND a solenoid something's been changed.

How many terminals?

Any pics?

 

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pfrederi

WH used same key switch for Kohler Breakerless Magneto and Techy solid state engines.  It is the one on the right in pictures.  there is a possibility switch was replaced maybe with a Cole hersee heavy duty one  (on the left.)  The solenoid must have been a modification by a previous owner I cannot find any Charger Electros that came with solenoids.

How many terminals on your switch???

Key is C-Hersee  83353

IMG_0238.JPG

IMG_0239.JPG

Edited by pfrederi
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Searcher60

Ok, here are the pics. I think I do have the correct seat pan, understand the holes, buy why the cuts? Solenoid has been added, but looks like a good job from long ago, I have cleaned out the keyhole, going to try some more cleaning. See pics, isn’t that the original switch? I unhooked mag wire to run engine. Another question, ever seen anyone put a C-160 tank on one of these with the shut off/strainer? ThIs one has the 8022 which I hope to get from Lincoln tomorrow unless the C-160 will bolt on. If so, I will get the C-160 tank. Or, upgrade to the 100572 tank with spring. Thanks for your help. 

 

 

E0C2057F-494F-4606-A59E-C97FC4A5AEA2.jpeg

0446B434-8410-4D00-A06D-5933AFC73A1E.jpeg

4EFEE762-FE69-4554-8803-2D5C5E16D6AD.jpeg

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ebinmaine

I've not seen a Wheelhorse key switch with 6 terminals.

@pfrederi ... ??

 

 

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pfrederi

I have two 69 Chargers.  One I am positive is unmolested.  I am going to say your switch is not original.  Both 69s use two screw terminals and 3 spade.  I do not see crimp on connectors from WH  The heavy wires on mine have soldered on lugs and some kind of shrink wrap. The spade ones have plastic plugs

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pfrederi

IMG_0240.JPG

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Searcher60

Ok, so what to do? Should I eliminate the solenoid and put the original type switch back?
Or, since I have the solenoid, should I just use a generic magneto style switch and keep the solenoid? Is the solenoid a plus? 
 

Also, I am going after that seal, can I just cross to the skf or Napa Number, or should I get the Sundstran O ring? Also, not sure if there is oil or transmission fluid, or hydraulic fluid, or mixture in the hydro. Fluid had oil like consistency, but a transmission fluid smell. 
 

I like this tractor. If I get it back to normal, just mite keep it and sell my 520H. Hard to let go of a good 520. 

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ebinmaine
4 minutes ago, Searcher60 said:

Should I eliminate the solenoid and put the original type switch back?
Or, since I have the solenoid, should I just use a generic magneto style switch and keep the solenoid? Is the solenoid a plus?

 

Really is kind of up to you.

 

IIFF the original or replacement 70 amp ignition switch is in good shape they're perfectly fine to use.

 

The solenoid takes most of the current away from the switch.

That certainly is a plus.

 

I have to admit that I do by EAR, so to speak.

 

On an engine with a starter/generator I use the 70 amp switch because I like the UNIQUE SOUND of that style engine starting.

 

On an engine with a conventional modern starter I use a solenoid whether or not it's original.

 

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ebinmaine

Also, looking at your wiring... You really should replace the main battery cables no matter what switch you go to.

 

Yours appear to be 8 gauge which is a bit light.

 

 

 

What's the tank question for?

Is your gas tank bad or leaking?

 

 

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Searcher60
23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Also, looking at your wiring... You really should replace the main battery cables no matter what switch you go to.

 

Yours appear to be 8 gauge which is a bit light.

 

 

 

What's the tank question for?

Is your gas tank bad or leaking?

 

 

Tank is cracked along seam on bottom for about 3-4”, leaking like a sieve. Got a B&S $150 tank strapped on temporary. I’d like to see if a C-160 tank will fit because it has the standard WH shutoff/strainer. The original tank, 8022, is just a 1/4” nipple. There is a bulletin from 1973 that the 8022 was not going to be available, and to now use the 100572 with wire and spring hold down. Thanks. 

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pfrederi

I would stick with the solenoid.  Get a generic magneto switch and one of these pigtails.  If I recall you said the leak was from where the motion control shaft goes into the pump..  You will need two O rings.  PM me your address i will mail you the  two free. 

harness.JPG

Edited by pfrederi
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WheelHorse_of_course

I agree that the switch has been replaced. I owned a 69 Charger 12. My guess is that the switch failed and rather than find one capable of handling the current drawn by the starter (an unusual scenario) a  different switch was installed along with solenoid. There are not that many different switches out there, so in theory you could/should be able to find a key.

 

I know I have seen one that Ace hardware claims is universal (definitely not the same as the regular Wheel Horse keys,, but does turn those switches), but there's no guarantee it would work.

 

It won't be easy to find the right switch, so leaving the solenoid in place would be wise.

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ebinmaine
6 minutes ago, WheelHorse_of_course said:

Ace hardware claims is universal (definitely not the same as the regular Wheel Horse keys,, but does turn those switches), but there's no guarantee it would work

It is NOT universal....

 

I've been bitten by that in the past.

 

There are as we know several different kinds of Wheelhorse systems alone and one switch simply does not work for all of them.

 

 

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ebinmaine

@pfrederi might be able to confirm but I know a key switch for an S/G tractor is a Standard part number US14.

 

15 minutes ago, WheelHorse_of_course said:

won't be easy to find the right switch

 

I used to think the same thing.

Redsquare is an amazing resource.

 

These tractors can and have been wired in many different ways by owners over the years.

 

Either the OE switch from that very tractor or one from an 80s model with a magneto might work.

 

 

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pfrederi

This isn't and S/g.  There is a solenoid installed ...save money go with a generic 5 pin Mag switch big box store $15

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Searcher60

Ordered switch/pigtail, and much more. Is it feasible to remove the 1/4” roll pin from the selector with the hydro still installed? I finally got all the rusted up and stuck friction lock assembly removed without destroying and anything. But, getting that roll pin out ain’t going to be easy. Maybe remove the left wheel and use a long punch?  How do you do it? 

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953 nut
On 1/12/2020 at 1:23 PM, Searcher60 said:

since I have the solenoid, should I just use a generic magneto style switch and keep the solenoid?

:text-yeahthat:          The older switches were very heavy duty to carry the amperage needed to run the starter motor and they are very expensive to replace. If you purchased a #  103-991 switch this diagram will be the one to use. If it is a different switch the terminals will be in another orientation but the diagram will give good guidance.

5b202f2559e4b_Mag.ignitiontractor-wiring.jpg.c9ba2b8fc2697f7770291614834b5fd4.jpg

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pfrederi
5 hours ago, Searcher60 said:

Ordered switch/pigtail, and much more. Is it feasible to remove the 1/4” roll pin from the selector with the hydro still installed? I finally got all the rusted up and stuck friction lock assembly removed without destroying and anything. But, getting that roll pin out ain’t going to be easy. Maybe remove the left wheel and use a long punch?  How do you do it? 

 

I split the tractor.  my roll pin punches aren't long enough to work from the far side. Also some times the arm decides it doesn't want to come off after you drive out the pin. Requiring a puller of some fashion.  The three bolts used changed over the years but for the most common you need a 12pt 1/4" socket.

InkedIMG_0414_LI.jpg

InkedIMG_0415_LI.jpg

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Searcher60
On 1/14/2020 at 12:40 PM, pfrederi said:

 

I split the tractor.  my roll pin punches aren't long enough to work from the far side. Also some times the arm decides it doesn't want to come off after you drive out the pin. Requiring a puller of some fashion.  The three bolts used changed over the years but for the most common you need a 12pt 1/4" socket.

InkedIMG_0414_LI.jpg

InkedIMG_0415_LI.jpg

Just sent you a message. Funny how you were sending me a reply while I was typing out a pm to you. Your horses are like new. I got a long ways to go on this one. Thanks.

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Searcher60
On 1/14/2020 at 12:40 PM, pfrederi said:

 

I split the tractor.  my roll pin punches aren't long enough to work from the far side. Also some times the arm decides it doesn't want to come off after you drive out the pin. Requiring a puller of some fashion.  The three bolts used changed over the years but for the most common you need a 12pt 1/4" socket.

InkedIMG_0414_LI.jpg

InkedIMG_0415_LI.jpg

Just sent you a message. Funny how you were sending me a reply while I was typing out a pm to you. Your horses are like new. I got a long ways to go on this one. Thanks.

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Searcher60

Well, seals in, box installed, pin installed. I intend to drain and strain some fluid today lookin for metal, and to better I D fluid type. 

 

 

image.jpeg.8212a1234c7258523b7931b27338dc8e.jpeg

 

 

image.jpeg

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Searcher60

Ok, got it running without the friction lock assembly installed. No leaking what so ever now. Waiting on spring for friction lock to arrive. When I pull the plastic selector up with my hand the tractor runs full speed. I need to split the diff to fix the parking brake. When I drained a quart of fluid, a small amount of metal filings was in the strainer which no doubt came from the parking brake. Can the limited slip be repaired, or are the parts not available?  THANKS BIG TIME!

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pfrederi

With tractor jacked up spin one wheel the other wheel should spin the same direction.  If it doesn't you may want to order a replacement spring from Wheelhorseparts and more. A weak or broken spring is the most common cause of losing the limited slip function.

 

https://www.wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/transmissions.html#!/7235-spring/p/101489902/category=23548039

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Searcher60

Could you tell me how your hydraulic hoses are hooked up? First, when you push upward on the handle, does the deck  go up down? Does the hose coming from the rear of the transmission go to the “outside”  center port on the controller? And, does the hose at the front of the hydraulic controller go to the hole in the cylinder next to where the chrome shaft comes out? Thanks.

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