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HELP! WH newb - looking for recommendation

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ebinmaine
6 hours ago, ZXT said:

I'm lucky if one pops up every 6 months

You just jump in the truck and head upta Maine, Jonah.

I'll toss a pile of disassembled C series in the bed.

 

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wheelwhores

when folks say any 3, 4, or 500 series tractor, does that include anything that's a 3xx, 4xx, or 5xx number?   Is there a year in the 80s or 90s when they were sold that the quality really fell off?  What years should i stick to to get a nice thickly built heavy gauge metal frame?

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wheelwhores
2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

You just jump in the truck and head upta Maine, Jonah.

I'll toss a pile of disassembled C series in the bed.

 

haha, i'm getting in the truck now.  i'll see you in 3 days haha

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wheelwhores
7 minutes ago, wheelwhores said:

when folks say any 3, 4, or 500 series tractor, does that include anything that's a 3xx, 4xx, or 5xx number?   Is there a year in the 80s or 90s when they were sold that the quality really fell off?  What years should i stick to to get a nice thickly built heavy gauge metal frame?

is there a coupla magic numbers within these series that are particularly good or featured packed that i should really keep an eye out for?  Also, if i find a nice one, is it ok to post info and pics from the advert as long as i don't post a link?

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953 nut
8 minutes ago, wheelwhores said:

is there a coupla magic numbers within these series that are particularly good or featured packed that i should really keep an eye out for?  Also, if i find a nice one, is it ok to post info and pics from the advert as long as i don't post a link?

:WRS:

Don't give out too much information or someone may beat you to it.        :text-lol:

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Pullstart

Examples of 3,4 or 500 series is just the beginning number... 312, 314, 416, 520, etc.  They are all as tough as nails, with 1/4”(Big wheels have 5/16” I believe?) angle iron frames.  They most all have the same design of steering and front axle and transmission housing within reason (wider, hydro vs gear drive, etc) from the early 60’s to the mid 2000’s just some attachment methods improved with the B/C series and up.  

 

For the the most part, you really can’t go wrong.  If it’s been stored outside, be sure to check the transmission fluid in a gear drive, water’s known for making it’s way down the shifter.  Check for slop in the front end, noise from pulleys and deck spindles, all the normal tire kicking stuff.

 

Most importantly, :wwp: when you find your perfect match!  

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wheelwhores

i also see some co-branded with Toro, when did that happen?  Good machines or declining?  Last question when there's an 'H' in the model # i assume that means its a hydrostatic drive?

 

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wheelwhores
20 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Examples of 3,4 or 500 series is just the beginning number... 312, 314, 416, 520, etc.  They are all as tough as nails, with 1/4”(Big wheels have 5/16” I believe?) angle iron frames.  They most all have the same design of steering and front axle and transmission housing within reason (wider, hydro vs gear drive, etc) from the early 60’s to the mid 2000’s just some attachment methods improved with the B/C series and up.  

 

For the the most part, you really can’t go wrong.  If it’s been stored outside, be sure to check the transmission fluid in a gear drive, water’s known for making it’s way down the shifter.  Check for slop in the front end, noise from pulleys and deck spindles, all the normal tire kicking stuff.

 

Most importantly, :wwp: when you find your perfect match!  

 

anything else you'd include in the 'normal tire kicking stuff'?

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Pullstart

If it’s a hydro...  run it around for long enough o get the transmission good and warm.  Chain it to a tree and try to pull away... in both directions.  The tires should be able to spin with you sitting on it, otherwise the hydro may be weak.  I have a few hydro machines and haven’t ever had one fail that test... but it’s worth testing!

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Ed Kennell
34 minutes ago, wheelwhores said:

is there a coupla magic numbers within these series that are particularly good or featured packed that i should really keep an eye out for?  Also, if i find a nice one, is it ok to post info and pics from the advert as long as i don't post a link?

 

Good info from @pullstart above.    

A few of my thoughts :

It is well known that I prefer hydro transmissions with hydraulic lift  over gear drives for mowing and snow removal.   For tilling and plowing, gear drives are preferred.  

Having said that, gear drives are nearly bullet proof and easier to maintain and repair than hydros.  Leaking axle seals may indicate bad axle bearings.

 I test every hydro I buy by chaining it to a tree or bumper hitch and make sure it will spin the tires through the full range of F/R motion.  The fluid in a well maintained hydro should look clean with no foam and should not smell burnt.  It may be ATF (pink) or motor oil(amber). Both are used , but can not be mixed. 

The C series will have a Sundstrand hydro and the 3,4,500 series will have an Eaton 700 or 1100.   The Eaton 700 is the weakest of the hydros and can not be pushed or towed.

The sundstrands will have a valve that can be opened for towing.  The Eaton 1100 can be pushed easily by hand but not towed.

The "H" or "A" after the model indicates a hydro or automatic transmission.  In most cases the H is preferred as it normally has the hydraulic lift.

Eaton 1100s require a 5-10 minute warmup in colder temperatures.   On some 1100s the lift will not work until the fluid is warm.  This is normal.

 

I do not like the rocker plate engine mounts.

 

I prefer points ignition over solid state.

 

Moving the fuel tank from the steering column  to the under seat location created some hard starting due to some fuel pumps losing prime over time.  

This problem is easy to fix if you understand the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

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Pullstart

As far as Toro’s involvement...  The quality didn’t change, the nostalgia did... and the addition of more wiring and safeties as time progressed.  

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Coulter Caleb

Wheel Horse holds an interesting spot among GT’s in that they had very few changes among their basic frame work from the 1960’s through the end of the classic series run in 1998.  Sheetmetal changed, some attachment points changed, engines got bigger, safeties abounded, but structurally many things stayed the same. That is due in large part that it was difficult to make a substantial improvement on the simplicity and durability that the Ponds engineered into those early tractors.  Many guys on here have found ways with minimal fabrication to attach later model attachments to earlier tractors and repower old tractors with newer engines.

 

 Regarding Toro’s ownership, it is important to understand that any Wheel Horse after 1974 (when the Cecil Pond sold the company) was built with a large conglomerate owner at the helm.  However, AMC carried the torch well concerning the overall product quality.  I believe that Toro (purchasing the brand around 1987) was the real saving grace for Wheel Horse that continues to this day.  Many of the popular GT brands of the 1960’s have ceased to exist and the only way to find parts for them is to search and search because they just plain “went out of business”. The fact that Toro still owns the name and continues to carry many parts for these old tractors is awesome.  Although I wish that there was still a garden tractor named Wheel Horse being produced by Toro, I’m thankful that they own the brand and not MTD (who ran many great GT brand names into the dirt!)

 

 

The short answer—most any of the 1970’s-1990’s true Garden Tractor Horses will be formidable machines if they were taken care of!!! 

Good luck in your search...

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PeacemakerJack

:text-yeahthat:once again—sounds exactly like something I would say☺️

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ebinmaine

 

I'd like to add into the mix that there are lighter duty LAWN TRACTORS that are good enough quality on their own but probably should be avoided. ANY of the 200 series and also the 1978 and up B series.

 

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wheelwhores

Reading all this advice has been a highlight the last few days!  Awesome stuff.

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clueless

I've owned Cs and Bs, 300s, 400s geared and hydros, they all are and were tough tractors. Just my opinion but I think by the time the 3,4 and 5's came along (mid 80s) the tin and paint was not quite the quality as the earlier ones, but that's just skin deep, under it the tough tractor is still there. Like some have said the 312-8 or H are about all you will ever need. Stay away for the 700 hydro, not that tough and no way to move it if it won't run. Also the earlier 312's came with the smaller rear axle not really that big of a deal though. I'm also partial to the kohler magnums, just as tough as the Ks but less problems hunting down electrical issues :angry-cussingblack:

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Pullstart
1 hour ago, Coulter Caleb said:

Wheel Horse holds an interesting spot among GT’s in that they had very few changes among their basic frame work from the 1960’s through the end of the classic series run in 1998.  Sheetmetal changed, some attachment points changed, engines got bigger, safeties abounded, but structurally many things stayed the same. That is due in large part that it was difficult to make a substantial improvement on the simplicity and durability that the Ponds engineered into those early tractors.  Many guys on here have found ways with minimal fabrication to attach later model attachments to earlier tractors and repower old tractors with newer engines.

 

 Regarding Toro’s ownership, it is important to understand that any Wheel Horse after 1974 (when the Cecil Pond sold the company) was built with a large conglomerate owner at the helm.  However, AMC carried the torch well concerning the overall product quality.  I believe that Toro (purchasing the brand around 1987) was the real saving grace for Wheel Horse that continues to this day.  Many of the popular GT brands of the 1960’s have ceased to exist and the only way to find parts for them is to search and search because they just plain “went out of business”. The fact that Toro still owns the name and continues to carry many parts for these old tractors is awesome.  Although I wish that there was still a garden tractor named Wheel Horse being produced by Toro, I’m thankful that they own the brand and not MTD (who ran many great GT brand names into the dirt!)

 

 

The short answer—most any of the 1970’s-1990’s true Garden Tractor Horses will be formidable machines if they were taken care of!!! 

Good luck in your search...

 

Caleb, your father is beginning to rub off on you!

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clueless
1 hour ago, clueless said:

I've owned Cs and Bs, 300s, 400s geared and hydros, they all are and were tough tractors. Just my opinion but I think by the time the 3,4 and 5's came along (mid 80s) the tin and paint was not quit the quality as the earlier ones, but that's just skin deep, under it the tough tractor is still there. Like some have said the 312-8 or H are about all you will ever need. Stay away for the 700 hydro, not that tough and no way to move it if it won't run. Also the earlier 312's came with the smaller rear axle not really that big of a deal though. I'm also partial to the kohler magnums, just as tough as the Ks but less problems hunting down electrical issues :angry-cussingblack:

 

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clueless

Sorry wrong key:scratchead:

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wheelwhores

nothing much new in the used for sale arena this week, despite me checking it 3-4 times a day haha.  Do these ever get traded into dealers, should i be looking there?  Anyone of you found there is a better time of year to look for a tractor?

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Pullstart

You can set up Craigslist email notifications... not like I’d know :hide:

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Stormin

   First off, :WRS: from the :UK: 

   Can't help you much with your search, but you've been given a wealth of info from your fellow countrymen. (I normally say colonials but I'm being polite today. :D)

  I run 3 C series tractors, all with manual transmissions. One 8hp and two 12's. Can't fault them for my uses. No experience of hydro's so can't comment on them. Good luck in your search. :thumbs:

  Be warned though. You get one and soon you'll find you have more. Your lasses will want one each.

 

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ebinmaine
3 minutes ago, Stormin said:

Your lasses will want one each.

Maybe two. Actually could be more....

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wheelwhores

boy, i do have to say the sorting and filtering options on this forums classifieds are a nightmare...can't sort by zip or state?  price sort only sorts by first number so 1000 and 10 items are listed together?  Who or how do i suggest a change?

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wheelwhores

more questions, Onan or Kohler....any advantages/preferences and why?  Which is easier to work on, more reliable?   any know issues?   i'm leaning towards a 4 or 5oo series with a hydro so narrowing my options a bit, we have some tighter spaces in our yard so probably looking for a smaller 42" moving deck.

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