Best indicator of hours on a machine.

[dalez 136]

Bought a 97 416-h recently and when I got it home it seems like it may have more hours than the hour meter reads (622). I checked things like the steering, hydro, etc. Started to tear it down to fix obvious problems before using it and found the drive belt idler shaft worn and bushing in frame eggshaped. Would this go in that amount of hours? Pretty sure the wrong pulley was on it also. Drilled the frame out to 5/8" and welded a 1/8" piece of steel to thicken the frame, added bronze bushings and seems good to go.

 

Either one front tire had been replaced or three tires were replaced and one was left original. The 3 matching tires are DICO I don't know what brand they originally came with.

Mower deck looked great. I actually thought I had one that would require no welding until i started wire brushing and banging off rust. Lots of holes.  I don't think the seller would of been to happy if I got out a hammer and started banging on the mower deck looking for rust holes (but my fault for not removing it and checking it out better).

Other things were lots of rust and pitting on footpads although the the rubber pads were in excellent shape. Levers had worn out Nylon bushings. Paid $600. The engine and the Hydro work fine so I just have a lot of miner repairs.

I guess my question is "When looking at a tractor what would make you question the working hour meter?

Also do we have a tractor buying stickie anywhere? Things to check? I will be more cautious next time but I had been wanting a hydro so kinda jumped the gun.

Edited July 20, 2019 by dalez

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Can these meters be turned back??? 

[squonk 38,815]

3 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Can these meters be turned back??? 

Good question Steve. Cents they run off DC I would say if you reverse polarity then I would say  yes. Some one's gonna have to try it. But I will say this. I don't think the 300-500 series tractors hold up as well as the older models.

[tunahead72 2,332]

28 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Can these meters be turned back??? 

 

They can certainly be unhooked.  You know, temporarily, for testing purposes only. 

[pfrederi 17,114]

[lynnmor 6,761]

The idler bushing is a matter of luck mostly, I oil mine at least once per year and have never had significant wear, I doubt that one percent are ever oiled.  The Dico tires are probably original.  The deck rust is from the previous owner never cleaning the deck underside.  Likewise, water and debris under foot pads will cause rust.  Outside storage is the death of these tractors.  Rust on shafts thru nylon bushings will cause them to fail, again outside storage issue.  Always leave an engine run long enough that the hour meter should advance another number before having any faith in the total hours.

[JoeM 7,585]

Hour meters are good for maintenance and servicing intervals but not much good for dictating condition. I guess you could somewhat get a feel for condition from the hour meter If you know the entire (truthful) machine history.

When I look at these machines, I like to check the throttle shaft and governor linkage as they get pretty worn when a machine is run and run hard. Also, It is nice to get a look under the deck at the spindle housings. When they are ate up it tells me that person doesn't clean the deck.

I have seen some 1500 plus hour machines that are in great condition, well serviced.

The best ones are those that are garage kept and the guy takes a blanket off of it when you show up!

Beware of the guy that had it running right before you get there, I like the muffler to be cold on a test start.

Sometimes it is just a gamble.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

That is a good point about running it for an hour or more.  If you do not run it past an hour and nothing would change...I would just about have zero on my horses.  It takes me less then 1/2 hour to mow my lawn, and unless it is a good snow...I could do the drive in 45 minutes or less.  Dang, going around the block only take 5 minutes.  Only a deep snow would make me put on more then an hour.

   I would agree, these meters are more for maintenance purposes then actual time used. 

[Lee1977 6,209]

The 300, 400 and 500 series thends to rust under the paint. Not sure if they were starting to rust before painting are just a bad paint job around the edges. They rust in from the edge of the panels worst then anywhere else. I also found a lot of rust under the rubber mats. Mine won't get anymore mats, Might use Three M Safety Tape like I used on my other tractors.

The 300 and 500 I have are 30 years old so you can expect some ware.  My 312-8 has 925 hours I don't remember what was on it when I got Iknow it was not working untill I put a new switch in.  T he 520-H had 778 hours when i got it in March it has 799 hours on it now and it's just doing half of my mowing.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Lee1977

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

Dico brand tires are OEM, I have an Anniversary model 520H that I bought new and used as a 4 seasons machine and none of the rust issues with 760+ on it but I have a bought used '95 520 with 237hrs that has the rust and nylon bushing issue from being left uncovered outside for years so I say it's more of a shelter issue than a maintance issue.

[clueless 2,898]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

Good question Steve. Cents they run off DC I would say if you reverse polarity then I would say  yes. Some one's gonna have to try it. But I will say this. I don't think the 300-500 series tractors hold up as well as the older models.

The 300-500 tractors paint and sheet metal aren't close to the 60's and 70's tractors.

[The Tuul Crib 7,332]

To me the hour meter only dictates how long the engine has run . Not how well

its been taken care of. 

[dalez 136]

I think I will chalk a lot of it up to sitting outside in eastern Massachusetts. Paint on panels and was bubbling underneath like described in an earlier post. Transmission and frame paint looks fine. I couldn't believe the thickness of the rust under the deck it was coming off in layers. I knew I was in trouble when I gave it a whack to loosen up some rust and the hammer broke through the other side.

Thanks for the knowledge and ideas. I will post pics of the repairs I made soon.

[dalez 136]

I don't mind fixing stuff, that's part of the fun. I just would like to be more aware of what I'm getting into and I guess that will come with experience. Also need to be able to assess and decide if the project is right. I try to buy a tractor in the spring/summer use it over the summer to determine its worthiness and then take the body parts and small misc. parts to Florida to prep and paint over the winter. If they were perfect I would have to find something else to do.

[lynnmor 6,761]

I believe that most hour meters have a 1/10 number so an engine would only need to run 6 minutes for a change in that number.

 

I bought an engine that lived outdoors, I'll never do that again because of all the rusted fasteners making it a miserable job to take it apart.  I blasted it with PB Blaster for several weeks before tackling the job and it still took heat and four letter words.

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

It's mostly a buyer beware situation when buying ANYTHING.We all get caught up in the excitement when looking to buy things.We tend to overlook or fail to see any problems til we get home and really start to look.Then,it's gee,I didn't notice that...…...gee,I didn't see that.I agree.These tractors weren't built to live outside.Especially in a damp climate.I try to store all my keepers indoors,but I mostly have no idea how they were taken care of before I got them.Most Horses that I've bought were outside when I looked at them.I also agree about the poor paint jobs on the 300,400 and 500 series.I've stripped a few down to bare metal.Never saw a bit of primer underneath the paint on any of them.Maybe when they were built,someone put in a cost cutting suggestion about omitting primer?Anyway.I still love all these Wheel Horse tractors.Even the rusty,worn out ones. 

[AMC RULES 36,940]

 Only thing I've ever found under factory  paint is rust. 

              Must be why they all look so good to me.  

[ohiofarmer 3,155]

20 hours ago, dalez said:

I think I will chalk a lot of it up to sitting outside in eastern Massachusetts. Paint on panels and was bubbling underneath like described in an earlier post. Transmission and frame paint looks fine. I couldn't believe the thickness of the rust under the deck it was coming off in layers. I knew I was in trouble when I gave it a whack to loosen up some rust and the hammer broke through the other side.

Thanks for the knowledge and ideas. I will post pics of the repairs I made soon.

 Please do post those piccs.  I keep warning people about the egg out of the thin sheet metal around the idler. Trouble is that the only time you even see it is when you remove the belt guard. Another weak area is where the seats bolt on. If you lean your weight to the side when mowing side slopes, the cantilever mounts exert tremendous pressure on the sheet metal of the transmission tunnel and they crack and fail. Thin sheet  metal is the culprit of both problems.

 

I have a 416 and the idler was supported with an air shock which keeps the vibration down. So maybe Toro became aware of this problem at some point.

Edited July 21, 2019 by ohiofarmer

[dalez 136]

Attached some photos of the idler arm assembly repair.

Removed old bushings. almost seemed like they were attached to frame.

Drilled frame out to 5/8

Welded 1/8 steel plate with 5/8 hole to outside of frame on each side

Installed 5/8 x 1/2 bronze bushings with Flange on inside. 

Keep it all together with locking collars on the inside against the flanges.

Couple pics of the tractor with an old deck I use.