8 speed clarification

[Firebug 267]

I have a c 160 with an 8 speed. I was curious what the differences were in the upgraded trans. I have read that it has 1 1/8 inch axles. Are there any other differences? I also saw something recently about a 10 pinion rear end, what does that mean? Are those rear ends that much stronger? How do you tell the difference between them? My plan for the tractor is to do a lot of dirt work, tilling, turnover plow, possibly attending plow days. Also what is a decent price for a rear end, I found one that says it has the 1 1/8 axles but he wants $250 for it, seems a bit steep to me

[ebinmaine 63,093]

Your C-160 should already have the strong transmission/differential in it.

It should have the 1-1/8" axles.

@stevasaurus or @pfrederi or others could help more with the differential questions but I think your C has the heavy-duty one.

 

$250..... ?

Nope.

Unless it can be proven to have new parts and seals.....

 

You could likely get 2 for that price some places.

 

[Firebug 267]

Aside from the bigger axles, is the any difference between the internals

[ebinmaine 63,093]

I'll defer to the other guys to get you the definitive answer on that but from what I've gathered the 8 pinion is the strongest differential.

I think that 8 pinion is the one that should already be in that C160.

 

The rest of the internals May differ slightly but should be comparable in strength. The 10 pinion has limited slip but the castings that hold it in place are a little less rigid than the castings that are used in the 8 pinion.

 

@stevasaurus has a video pinned in the top of the transmission section about building a 10 pinion. That video will show you what the 10 pinion looks like and how to take care of it and it is very similar to the 8.

 

If your C still has the original transmission it should be well more than adequate for anything that you want to do with it.

 

 

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Your C160 with it's factory transmission is exactly what you need for the work you listed.  If you haven't services your transmission yet, give it a flush with diesel or kerosene and refill with 2 quarts 90W gear oil. Keep a good rubber boot on the shifter, it will thank you for keeping the water out! 

[Firebug 267]

Is there a way to tell what transmission is in it by looking at it? I got a new boot for it, just haven’t put it in yet since the tractor is still in my buddy’s shop for some wiring issues. Is there anything else that should be strengthened for what I want to do, front spindles, axle, etc?

[pfrederi 17,146]

Do you have reason to believe the transmission was swapped out???   If it has hi/Lo ranges and 1-1/8"  axles and no extension on the fill plug (left side near bottom at an angle) then you have what you need for a tranny.

Edited July 17, 2019 by pfrederi

[Firebug 267]

I don’t have a reason to believe it was swapped, I’m in a position where I’ve just about sold all my other horses. My plan was to keep this one and my wife’s 310-8. But I wanted to build this one to make it bulletproof and just keep it as a play toy

[ebinmaine 63,093]

22 minutes ago, Firebug said:

I don’t have a reason to believe it was swapped, I’m in a position where I’ve just about sold all my other horses. My plan was to keep this one and my wife’s 310-8. But I wanted to build this one to make it bulletproof and just keep it as a play toy

You're definitely headed the right direction.

 

There really isn't a weak point, so to speak, on the Wheelhorses with the possible exception of where the transmission bolts to the frame. It would be a good idea to remove those bolts one at a time and inspect the area, after cleaning it, for cracks.

That can be caused by previous owners and snow plows being put to a bad combination.

 

Other than that, and that is not super common, you should be in great shape with that rig.

[Pullstart 59,674]

Unless you are competition pulling, you’ll likely always be limited by traction or power for what you plan.  I doubt there’s reason to pursue another transmission.

[Racinbob 10,276]

All the C-8 speeds have the 8 pinion transmission with 1 1/8" axles. The 76 & 77 B's do as well. As long as yours hasn't been swapped you have the toughest transmission they made. 

[Firebug 267]

My reason for all this was not that I was in pursuit of a new transmission, I wanted to make sure I had a bulletproof set up for what I want to do. I knew there was the “larger” transmission, I just didn’t know what the differences were besides the bigger axles. And if I had the smaller one then it could be something to upgrade in the future 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Like Bob said...the 1976/77 8-speed horses all used the 8 pinion differential with 1 1/8" axles.  They are the strongest.  They used the#5091 and the #103916 transmissions.  To know what the differences may be between those 2 transmissions, you have to go through the parts list.  The only difference I saw...the #5091 uses the #1526 outer axle bearing and the #103907 uses #105219.  What that means...you got me.  #1526 is the same as KOYO # B-1816 and measures 1 1/8" x 1 3/8" x 1".........I'll bet the #105219 measures the same thing.  Why do I think that??  The case halves and the axles are the same part numbers in both transmissions.  The rest of the internals are all the same.

[ebinmaine 63,093]

4 minutes ago, Firebug said:

My reason for all this was not that I was in pursuit of a new transmission, I wanted to make sure I had a bulletproof set up for what I want to do. I knew there was the “larger” transmission, I just didn’t know what the differences were besides the bigger axles. And if I had the smaller one then it could be something to upgrade in the future 

Definitely understandable. Just as a point of interest for you, my Patriot horse is a 1974 B80 with  1 inch axles and a 4 pinion 4 speed. I've hauled well over a thousand pounds with that thing quite a good many times.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I'm not sure what you mean between small and larger transmissions??  All of the Wheel Horse transmissions are either 1" or 1 1/8" axles.  All of the 1" axle transmissions are 4 pinions, though some have the hi/low range.  The 1 1/8" axle transmissions come with...8 pinions (like your C-160...10 pinions (like the 1972 Raider 12)...or the bevel gear differential (like the 1963 953s). 

   BTW, there is nothing wrong with the 10 pinion Limit Slip transmission.  It acts like a regular differential when turning, but will give you traction at both rear wheels when going in a straight line.  An advantage when on snow, ice, mud.

[Firebug 267]

When I say larger transmission I just mean the 1 1/8 axles. Sounds like everything else about them is the same as the 1 inch axle transmission. That limited slip sounds like it wouldn’t be a bad option for pulling a plow in the the dirt. Are those physically the same size as the others? 

[ebinmaine 63,093]

It would be a direct bolt in replacement ... Sort of... and the limited-slip is Handy. We have both here. Trina has an 867 with limited slip. It's a little worn but does help. My c-160 is the Main heavy load worker. I have it so heavy that attraction is never never never a problem for me

 

I say... Sort of... Because the linkage is different.

[pfrederi 17,146]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

Like Bob said...the 1976/77 8-speed horses all used the 8 pinion differential with 1 1/8" axles.  They are the strongest.  They used the

#5091 and the #103916 transmissions.  To know what the differences may be between those 2 transmissions, you have to go through the parts list.  The only difference I saw...the #5091 uses the #1526 outer axle bearing and the #103907 uses #105219.  What that means...you got me.  #1526 is the same as KOYO # B-1816 and measures 1 1/8" x 1 3/8" x 1".........I'll bet the #105219 measures the same thing.  Why do I think that??  The case halves and the axles are the same part numbers in both transmissions.  The rest of the internals are all the same.

 

 

Steve most  trannies i have opened have had full complement needle bearings some have a spacer ring and only about half as many needles.  maybe the reason for the different part numbers???

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Excellent point Paul, but the only way to know for sure (I think) would be to get a #105219 from TORO.  We know the #1528 is a full compliment needle bearing.  Too bad Wheel Horse bearing numbers do not cross over on anyone's list.     I have not ran into any of those spacer ring bearings...how many have you ran across??    They should still be inter-changeable.??

[pfrederi 17,146]

They are identical size and interchangeable, I think I found them in two transmissions but it has been awhile....  They are torrington J-1816 instead of the normal B-1816 full complement.

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

@Firebug  one other thing you mentioned...the $250 price tag for a transmission.  $250 for a Wheel Horse manual transmission would only command that if I knew who re-built it, if they had pictures of all of the gears, receipts for all bearings and seals, and all the bearings and seals were changed out...and pictures of what it looked like when opened.  Then that is a fair price.  Otherwise, anywhere from FREE to $75...depending on whether you can turn the hubs and input shaft and shift it.  Almost every Wheel Horse transmission can be made whole...the parts, bearings and seals are out there.  Electrolysis can work wonders on a rusted transmission.  Replacing all of the bearings and seals will push the $200 limit...just price for parts...so $250 can be a very fair price.

[pfrederi 17,146]

Mystery solved!!!!  The 105219 was replaced by 9416.  Looked it up at RCPW and they show a picture of the J-1816.

 

I see that at my bearing source the J is 19.53 the B is 7.09

 

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by pfrederi

[stevasaurus 22,229]

WOW!!!  What a team Paul...thanks.  So that is the difference between the #5091 and the #103907.  

 

You know how many times I try not to learn something every day??  

[pfrederi 17,146]

OK  so from a strength/reliability standpoint which is the better bearing????

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I'm going to vote negledgeable.  Reason being...the #1528 or B-1816 has lasted 40, 50, 60 years without being replaced in most transmissions.  At almost 1/3 the price of the "J"-1816 and knowing that it made it's appearance in the 1976 transmissions...why spend the extra money.  If you maintain your transmission, I see no need to spend the extra bucks.  I also kind of like the extra bearings supporting the axle on the out ends.