No oil change ever?

[Tractor boy 238]

Found this interesting......... this has been going on for a couple of years already and we (I work at a toro dealer) haven’t had one seize up due to lack of oil yet. 

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/campaigns/just-check-and-add.html

[ebinmaine 63,089]

I have heard rumors that this was going to be happening. This is the first official word that I've seen on it.

This is just further proof that our society has become more and more disposable and everything is just to be thrown away and considered garbage after a certain amount of hours.

 

I DO understand that the technology of oils and lubricants and engines is light-years further ahead than it was even so much as a decade ago.

 

That said, I do NOT condone this system. Quite frankly I think it's disappointing and disconcerting and offers further proof that as a group we are no longer capable of maintaining anything long-term.. I would never buy one of these engines.

IMHO... Laziness at its finest.

Please don't take me for being negative minded.

I'm just saying this is not a system or 

types of equipment I would ever want to own.

[Pullstart 59,651]

“The Lightest in it’s Class”

 

When we value an engine because it has it has so much weight for our tractors.. they are making it’s lack of weight a bargaining chip.

[squonk 38,906]

I have a push mower timmer with no oil drain plug. I  got one of those oil sucker thingys and change it in the spring. 

 

[ebinmaine 63,089]

2 minutes ago, squonk said:

I have a push mower timmer with no oil drain plug. I  got one of those oil sucker thingys and change it in the spring. 

 

Against manufacturer's recommendations??

You Rebel!

[BOB ELLISON 2,976]

I had a honda mower that didn't have a drain plug. You have to turn it over to drain it out the filler tube. Needless to say I gave it away to the junk man .

[Tractor boy 238]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

“The Lightest in it’s Class”

 

When we value an engine because it has it has so much weight for our tractors.. they are making it’s lack of weight a bargaining chip.

@pullstart I was listening to the sales speal last week and that point never really came up. As a service tech having no drain plugs and letting it burn as you use it actually makes our job easier. We have a little hand pump if the customer demands that we change it. I can only recall using it once or twice though. 

[Razorback 1,032]

42 minutes ago, Tractor boy said:

@pullstart I was listening to the sales speal last week and that point never really came up. As a service tech having no drain plugs and letting it burn as you use it actually makes our job easier. We have a little hand pump if the customer demands that we change it. I can only recall using it once or twice though. 

Sometimes I wonder if a person brings their machine to a dealer for much of anything, do they know enough to even ask for an oil change?

[Tractor boy 238]

1 minute ago, Razorback said:

Sometimes I wonder if a person brings their machine to a dealer for much of anything, do they know enough to even ask for an oil change?

About 95% of the time they ask for the seasonal. The other 5% is they just drop it off and say do whatever it needs and send me the bill. 

[Tractorhead 8,609]

This discission is about 30 years old.

That was the first i hear about.

 

The first issue i heard was on a fair, where a guy told me

„ just use our High Quality Oil, then you just have to change the Filter and thats it for the Future“

even on Cars it is be possible...  This company blasts in 2014. guess why

 

A Friend of mine was a Taxi driver, so 100.000Km a year was nothing for his cars.

He decides this „high superduper quality Oil“ at his brandnew Taxi with 20Km and in agreement with VW.

After 120.000Km he got the reciept, Turbocharger blocks at High speed, complete Engine was rotten.

After Autopsy of the Engine a lot of wear was found, all Turbobearings has massive wear and the Crankshaft bearings

has also massive abrasion.

 

 

my last Wintercar (actual is my second) i bought with about 120.000 Km i try also without oilchange.

Needless to say, it burnt a bit of oil -not that much but about 1 liter /1000 Km.

So there was i.m.h.o. a „natural“ exchange. I just change regulary the filter and check and fillup oil.

At 189.000 Km the Engine begin with some troubles and dies with a big bang, 

reason crankshaft was ripped, but nobody can 100% say its definitely about no oilchange because the Car was to old. (22Years)

It was a small Engine with an 1,2 Litre Petrol Engine and this Engines are known to dies at about 180.000 - 200.000Km.

 

On the other hand i have a friend, who‘s working in a Oil Company, wich i asked about that Thema.

He tolds me that the Oils of today are much better than every Oil in the Past.

Important is the Lubrication and secondary the viscosity.

 

A cheap oil consequently changed is much better than the offered Ultra High Quality Oils and just change Filters.

The reason he told me was, that the additives they will make in the Oil of today are much better,

but they also do some chemical reactions and let me say they „corroding“. (Simply explained)

This chemical reactions will come mostly more late, than with the older Oils, but if it happens,

it comes very quick to a distortion in the Engine.

 

One reason therefore was, when the chemical reaction is to far in final state, the last reactions comes very quickly and is no

measurable or visible ahead. That means if the additives are close to their chemical end, they collapses quickly with no warning ahead.

 

They do several experiments with different engines in differenty usability and finally got just one consequence:

Use a cheap oil and change regulary, is much better than use a high quality Oil and expand the Service too much.

The cheapest Oil of today has still a better quality than the best Oil from the 70‘ies.

 

3 important jobs has the Oil: 

Once cooling the Engine (piston and bearrings) 

Lubricating all movable parts in the Engine

Transport abused Material away from moving parts.

 

At my second Wintercar i just use Cheap Oil but i respect the Intervals.

it has the same Engine as the first, my actual Mileage was 237.000 Km with no problems at all.

This small Engine runs and runs and runs.

 

 

[squonk 38,906]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Against manufacturer's recommendations??

You Rebel!

I don't use Briggs & Scrap Iron oil either! 

[JoeM 7,621]

It would be interesting to pull a sample of that oil after a good season of cutting and see what the wear particles look like, and of course the viscosity etc. Just to see if this is a calculated number they bank on. Say the average, (not us), guy keeps a push mower 5 to 7 years. Probably could just get by adding oil cause the rest of the machine is junk??? And not so say, the fuel injection technology and ring fitments will clean up the oil pretty good.

Hey back in the old days I had a power wagon that every time I checked it....... I changed it, leaked and used oil badly.

[squonk 38,906]

I had a Chevy Vega in College.A qt. Of oil every 100 miles. Changed the filter once a year. 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,039]

Sorry I don't buy the no oil change. I change the oil in both Volvo's every 3,000 miles , the El Camino about once a year ( has between 100 to 500 miles on it then) . I think the no oil change on small engines is for the throw away society of today. Companies figure it will be thrown away before it breaks. You don't cut 1 to 3 acres of grass with a push mower, you call the lawn service. 

[Aldon 4,826]

6 hours ago, squonk said:

I have a push mower timmer with no oil drain plug. I  got one of those oil sucker thingys and change it in the spring. 

 

I had to drain oil out of my self propelled push mower. I was surprised to find it had no drain plug. I manually flipped it over and drained it from the full opening. Seems crazy that they plan on no maintenance activity at all.

[troutbum70 857]

I bought a huskie all wheel drive walk behind mower last year with briggs engine same thing have to turn upside down drain oil out filler tube, which is not a problem I drained oil every 20 hours completely against what briggs recommends. I mow about an acre with a lot of hill walking so it gets about 11 hours a week on it which includes mowing our church lawn also. My first car was a 57 chevy strait 6 for every 25 miles it used about 3 quarts oil and 3 sets of plugs, never had to change oil in it hi hi. And of course I carried 5 sets of plugs and changed plugs 3 or 4 times on a trip to town and back. When back home cleaned them up put them back in cigar box ready for next trip.

[wallfish 15,918]

All of you old timers probably still have a flip phone as well. Welcome the new technology! That crap is going to break down from something else before you need to change the oil anyway so save yourself the hassle.

A while back this wise ass young buck gave me a hard time over operating his new fangled all-terrain man lift which had all the bells and whistles and buttons imaginable. I couldn't figure out how to get it going with all the knobs and levers so he sighs and hops up on there with me and mumbles "Old men and technology don't mix". It was kind of funny but it's true!

[JAinVA 4,619]

You don't post here as a regular unless you don't mind getting your hands dirty.JMHO. The new no oil change stuff is aimed at the people who don't have the tools,knowledge ,concern or understanding to maintain anything.Yes I have a flip phone but I did take 65 of the same image with my wife's smart phone today.I think I need to take a nap.

Edited April 18, 2019 by JAinVA

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,039]

I don't have a flip phone , smart phone or any of them there fancy things. I have an land line with an answering machine. Call me there I may get back to you if you don't interrupt my nap , supper or favorite TV show. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by elcamino/wheelhorse
can't spell

[Sarge 3,462]

It is the responsibility of the older generations to teach the new generations about the evils of marketing and our disposable society. If you don't like the current trend - do something about it. The whole thing has gotten out of control - the Briggs engine is only one small example of the direction we've been duped into swallowing and spending our hard earned money to increase their profits. One way or another, consumers will pay for those oil changes - either by constantly replacing this garbage equipment, or actually trying to do the right thing and change the stupid oil.

 

The consumers have to be educated by their elders - it is not being taught in the classrooms. The Briggs example is only the tip of the marketing iceberg - look at what the phone companies are doing. The new trend in their ever-increasing profit demands is the new contract plans with the major carriers. They market the latest and greatest smartphone models, and once you sign that contract, you drank the corporate marketing koolaid . You don't actually own the unit, but "lease" it and in the end will pay about double for the thing if you keep it longer than the agreed time span to get rid of that contract. What they want is for consumers to get locked into these pay-to-play cycles of handing over their cash for things they don't really need. It works sort of like a shortcut to higher profits - this tactic takes away a consumers understanding of when they are being ripped off.

 

Computer software is headed toward the same thing - Windows is slated to become a "service" that you do not own, have little to no control over - and will pay through the nose to use it. People have got to be educated against the marketing wankers a lot better than the current trend is showing - they are indeed winning the game.

 

One of the best examples I can think of is the multi-billion dollar tool industry, especially in consumer grade power tools. Go to your local home store and have a look around - the bigger displays of a certain brand are not owned by the stores as inventory, but they are owned by the manufacturing giant as consignment shelf stock. If you look around at those stores you'll notice the higher-end brands and better quality tools are getting a very small and limited display area in the store. This is by design - the higher profit to the store comes from that consignment stock, they get paid when the stock sells and don't have to pay for the inventory, nor the taxes on that inventory at the end of the year. Their profit margin, in the end, is much higher, so they will invest a lot less in the more expensive and higher quality stock that they actually have to buy from a given manufacturer. Ryobi is the best example right now - another high-quality brand name that was bought out by Tekton in China. Their marketing wanks came up with this tactic to push lower quality tools as limited lifespan disposable products for higher profits. Flashy colors, less than honest "feature designs" and tech jargon is fooling the common consumer into thinking those tools are something that can do any job really well and last a long time - which is an outright lie. Marketing tactics have taught consumers to believe that "lighter is better", "eco-friendly", "ergonomic design" and other jargon is a good thing - which it is not. Plastic gears, thinner castings, powdered-metal powertrain parts, unpotted electronics and generally less than light-duty components mean these tools will fail easily and in a catastrophic manner. The accessories are where the real money is - proprietary blades, bits, fittings, hardware, and such items lock folks into a particular brand - my personal favorite is the game with batteries. Cheap cells, and even sometimes unprotected lithium-ion batteries and their chargers dupe people into buying things they don't understand - look at some of the super high capacity batteries, for example. Super-high amp-hour ratings also mean a shorter lifespan for the given charging cycles - and boy how do those batteries cost some real money to replace. It is "cheaper" to the consumer to buy a new tool, which is what the marketers want in the first place - think about that for a while. Ever notice it is cheaper to buy a new "kit" versus buying a replacement battery nowadays? As long as these uneducated consumers keep buying this garbage - those evil marketing people win the game.

 

For a long time, I sat back and watched all of this happen - no differently than a large portion of our members here. I remember the days when you got what you paid for - quality. You used to buy tools that would last a lifetime easily and far outperform expectations - those items were a true investment. I kept my mouth shut for far too long and watched people buying junk to do their projects or hobbies at home and always thought to myself how long it would take for them to regret spending that money. At times, I did try to educate others on the real cost of quality - but that price point has them hooked on cheap garbage that is designed to fail and now they just shut up and pay. Not doing that anymore - I'll take the time and let my unfiltered mouth educate them on the spot in a store about their idiot decisions and the long-term results of their actions. Why, because it affects me directly - to get new equipment that is built with honest quality is getting harder and harder - to the point that it's nearly impossible. When the whole thing has gotten bad enough that I'm seeking out older, used tools and refurbishing them for my own inventory and actually considering offering this up as a service - this trend has gone too far.

 

It is truly up to us to change this trend - or, shut up and just pay.

 

Sarge

[formariz 11,849]

Just another example why I like this place. A simple post about something brings out many different opinions. There is validity to all here so far even to the ones that somehow stray from the original subject.

Back to subject, the most serious problem, is  the underlying effects of what manufacturers market and decide , (new and better technology or not), that escape the general population's awareness of what is happening. We are concerned here about a lawnmower but it gets deeper than that. If you take the time to read @Sarge  reply ,and do not dismiss it as a rant, and think about what it says, one realizes how right he is and then one starts to get the picture why things are so hard today, specially for the younger generation. By slowly accepting these "innovations"  and decisions, telling us how much faster, cheaper, easier and better we are with them, in reality we have become brainwashed and eventually slaves of all of it by excepting it without question, and not being properly informed and educated about it, or anything. Sure technology does make our lives better, but much of it just became a continuous source of profit and income for much of  manufacturers in general. It is always about the better phone, the faster computer, the car with yearly oil changes,the new and better car, and on and on. So we spend, and spend, and spend many times several times on things that many years back would last literally generations. And, we want,want, want. Lines of hundreds of people early in the morning to buy the latest phone.The end result, is that for all of that, and the success of our brainwashing, life is now just about impossible for the younger generation. Not only there is not enough money to be made for everything that has been imposed on us,they don't have the ability or know how to avoid it or come out of it. Our school system has unfortunately also contributed to this by succumbing to pressures making changes for the worst.Unfortunately I can say with certainty that a majority of our young people come out of school into the world totally financially,and skill illiterate. Don't start beating college and test scores into them at a young age.Teach them about the ways of life and what it takes to live it on your own terms.

So I say, teach your children and grandchildren and any other youngsters about the pitfalls of this great modern world we live in, so at least we can avoid their brainwashing.

 

[ebinmaine 63,089]

5 minutes ago, formariz said:

brainwashing

I know I'm kind of going off topic here a little bit and I don't normally do that but I have a quick story that a lot of you will get a little Amusement out of.

 

One of the people that goes hiking with us is 28, going on 70, so to speak.

Is well educated in book form but also has a huge amount of Common Sense. That can be a tough combination to find sometimes.

This young man is absolutely NOT brainwashed as far as I can see.

Two or three years ago we were parking at a trailhead to go walk up a mountain. He has a late model Toyota pickup truck that beeps the horn when you lock the doors with the remote... Like most modern vehicles do...

 

So we all get out of the truck and grab our stuff and we start to walk away and he is standing by his driver's door and he locked it and we all hear it beep twice. Then he grabs the door knob and pulls on it to make sure it is in fact, locked.

 

Me being who I am I had to give him a ration of crap.

I said why do you pull on the door when you know it's locked??

He goes... Huh?

I said... You just heard the damn thing beeep so you know the truck is locked.

He looks at me and he starts laughing and he says...

Hahahahah... No you don't you @+#-&$, you know the horn works!!

 

[JoeM 7,621]

Maintaining a competitive edge is what business is all about. Turn the profit! Nothing more…. nothing less. Success at any cost.

I watched guys hamstring others for promotions.

People think it is okay to steal!

It’s only bad if I get caught.

And it always someone else’s fault!

I call it not having core values. Integrity, honesty, trust and hard work. There is a vast percentage of population that has no core valves and are in a generation that doesn’t even know about it.

Not all but some.

Yes we have to work it out!

[wh500special 2,053]

I had my last push mower for almost 20 years and never once changed the oil.  That baby just kept chugging along.  

 

Of course, it was a 2-stroke Lawn Boy...

 

After many years the plastic carburetor just wore out.  So I got rid of it after I couldn’t get it to run right anymore.   And the coil went bad too which meant I could easily convince myself to dump it.  

 

For its replacement I went back and forth for weeks trying to decide if I buy a $99 cheapo or a nice mower that would deserve maintenance. 

 

I went with a Honda that was one rung down from top of the line.  It was expensive but I decided that whenever possible I’m going to buy things that last instead of things with short lifespans.  

 

Despite being Japanese branded, it is almost all USA made.  So that helped too.  

 

When I last changed the oil in the new Honda after a full season of use, it still looked pretty clean.  I’m sure it would have been fine to leave in there another year but it only takes about a half a quart of oil, so it’s a negligible expense to swap it out. 

 

I don’t think the oil change-free Briggs is all that bad of an idea or really that outrageous.  My cars go 10000 miles between oil changes which is probably about 250 hours.   If the average midwestern owner uses his mower an hour a week for 7 months a year, it will take about 10 years to equal the same use.  So that’s not an unreasonable life for a sump of oil.  Mower engines probably never build up water in them either from short trips  since they warm up so fast.  So that’s no worry. 

 

Throw in a little more life due to not needing super clean oil for a relatively low precision engine and the equation gets better. 

 

As as much as I like this idea in theory, I’d still be changing the oil once a year.  Habits die hard. 

 

Steve

Edited April 19, 2019 by wh500special

[Pullstart 59,651]

I got me a new phone the other day.... my old one was about 7 years old or so.  I wish they would have been able (willing) to fix my old one...

 

I’m also 33.  People don’t understand why I won’t pay so much for a smart phone.  My PHONE calls just fine and I seem to be able to last through 2-4 phone cycles compared to the average consumer in my family.