Gasoline

[tunahead72 2,333]

Thanks for reminding us of the dangers of lead Steve, and for mentioning Clair Patterson.  I didn't know who he was, so I just did a quick search and found out what an interesting guy he was, and how much abuse he took for some of his thoughts on lead and its effects.  Good post! 

[cschannuth 3,795]

 I run whatever I can get the cheapest at the gas station but I always treat my fuel with Stabyl. My machines sit for months without being started. They always start as they should and run great no matter how long they sit as long as the fuel was treated and they are on trickle chargers.  

[dandan111 31]

I just bought the best stuff Sunoco had here in town. I put stabyl ethonal treatment  in the gas cans also. Trying to upgrade some without breaking the bank. 

[wh500special 2,053]

4 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Thanks for reminding us of the dangers of lead Steve, and for mentioning Clair Patterson.  I didn't know who he was, so I just did a quick search and found out what an interesting guy he was, and how much abuse he took for some of his thoughts on lead and its effects.  Good post! 

 

You bet!

 

His work with lead overshadowed his accomplishment of being THE scientist who nailed down the age of the earth: 4.5 billion years old.   

 

The first person he told when he made his discovery?   His mom. ❤️

 

Also, he’s given a lot of credit for pioneering “clean room” technology.  Without that, high tech computers, drug research, and other really fussy things would be lagging behind where we are today. 

 

I looked up the Wikipedia article on him after I made my initial post.   It also mentions Thomas Midgeley jr.  Another interesting guy.   

 

Tommy is credited - or blamed - as being the human being with having the worst effects on our environment of all time.   In addition to being one of the inventors of Tetraethyl Lead (the additive that adds lead to gasoline), he also invented chlorinated fluorocarbons (CFC’s) later in his career.   CFC’s of course play heck with our atmospheric ozone layer and are now banned materials.   

 

Both of these were huge achievements in their time, but later we learned they weren’t without side effects.  

 

Probably the most unlucky chemist of all time. 

 

Steve 

Edited January 21, 2019 by wh500special

[LengerichKA88 1,881]

Growing up we had “Lawn mower” gas, and “chain saw/weed eater” gas. 

Id never heard of running anything besides what comes out of the nearest gas stations pump. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Learn something every day. 

 

That said, I usually run Shell Premium through our Horses. I noticed a difference with my 87 Cutlass in Shells V Power over other Premiums, so anything that’s picky I run that.(also happens to be the nearest pump) I’m sure some would say it’s just fine and others would be abhored, but I’ve not had any fuel related issues to date. 

 

Now I need to get back in the house and go knock on the dinning room table. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by KyleLengerich

[bc.gold 3,399]

 

In support of @WVHillbilly520H post I will further add this information. http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_fuel_octane_vs_power.html

 

Fuels and Octane Ratings
What's it mean in HP??
Question: Will my bike make better power with higher octane fuel?
(Only for sure if it's knocking with lower octane fuel)

Dare I disagree with the Gordon Jennings's and Kevin Cameron's the world??? Well, I'm feeling a bit cocky today... There IS a difference in fuels - aside from the octane rating. Different fuel blends burn at different rates under the same temperatures and pressures. Absolute fact. Peak cylinder pressure, for best power output, MUST be timed to occur just after the top of the stroke. To tune for maximum power, you would like to use a fuel that burns at the quickest possible rate - without "knock" (there - that covers pre-ignition and detonation) so you can initiate burning at the latest possible time and still produce peak cylinder pressure at around TDC. That way, the rising cylinder pressure pushes back down on the top of the rising piston for the shortest period of time - decreasing power lost there. A more specific location for peak cylinder pressure would be ~15 degrees after TDC. There is some variance from that figure - but not more than a degree or so in an engine using gasoline.  When the ignition timing is correct, power output will be highest for that rpm and throttle position. (thanks, Al Cline!) Octane? If you look at the octane rating as only an indicator of what the fuel was designed for, you'd guess that a 120 octane fuel was probably designed for an engine that was prone to "knock" - like an older American V8 with relatively poor cooling and high compression. That fuel will be blended to burn at controllable rate that matches the high pressures and temperatures present AND resist "knock". A good match for those V8 engine conditions. Burn Rates- That's the ticket!! If you take that same fuel that worked well in the above V8, and run it in an engine, like a cbr900, with it's lower cranking compression and lower combustion chamber temps, it will, without a doubt, burn much too slowly at those lower temps and pressures and reach maximum cylinder pressure too far after TDC for best power. Things generally burn slower when they are cooler and vice versa. Peak cylinder pressure will occur much past TDC - decreasing the power produced if you keep the same ignition timing. You can advance ignition timing to try to recover power, but that will cause the air/fuel mixture to burn earlier in the crank stroke and spend, percentage wise, more of the energy produced by the expanding, burning mixture, pushing back down, trying to prevent the piston from rising up to the power stroke - robbing power. If you MUST use a slow burning fuel, which USUALLY has a high octane rating, advancing the ignition timing will lessen the power loss, but the best results are usually obtained with the quickest burning fuel obtainable, that, of course, doesn't "knock". All other factors being the same, except for burn rate - use the quickest burning fuel that doesn't "knock", light the spark in the middle of the combustion chamber, adjust ignition timing to reach peak cylinder pressure ~TDC and keep your mixture correct. When the ignition timing is correct, the engine will make best power for that fuel. There is a difference in the burn rates of different brands of fuels that are available. Some compliment one engine and some compliment the existing tuning of a different type of engine. Our Supersport YZF750 was really responsive to different pump fuels and liked a different type of race fuel (same brand of fuel) than our gsxr750 Supersport bike. Something on the order of 1%-2% power difference. Generally, the cbr900's are extremely power sensitive to different fuels. It has to do with the basic combustion design. Does using a fuel with higher octane numbers automatically make more power? Not unless they are preventing "knock". My vehicle runs fine and doesn't "ping" on "regular" fuel, but, it's a little "peppier" with "premium" fuel. What should I use? If you are wanting the extra power - use "premium" fuel - if you are saving money? Use "regular" fuel. As long as it doesn't "ping" all is well, as far as generally accepted...... Is there a difference in standard street pump premiums? Yes. ~1%-2% power output. Try a few and use the brand that works best in your bike. Or, you can bring your bike in and I can charge you a lot of money to test fuels for you. Is there a difference in additive packages between different brands of fuel - even if they have the same "octane" rating? Yep! There actually is. Some of the detergent packages are patented. I know for a fact that Chevron's Techron (techroline?) was patented. Years ago, when they first released it, they really loaded up the fuel with it. If your 4 stroke motorcycle jetting was too rich - it would actually, as an "oily solvent" with a flashpoint of ~1500f, build up on the insulator of the spark plug, unless you cleared it out every once in a while - it would actually foul! That was many years ago and all is well now! Oh - it really would remove minor fuel injector deposits, too! Energy content? There is a really SMALL difference in different pump premiums - depending on the fuel recipe - I'd suspect a  insignificant difference - like .01% power difference. Relative importance between different standard fuels? Much less than being off by 1/4 main jet. Octane boosters?   If they prevent "knock" in you vehicle, they WILL help produce more power, but if the engine is NOT knocking? No significant / cost effective, happy results. "Not a "buy" at this time." There ARE compounds that will improve power, yes, but they weren't  down at Pep Boys and Grand Auto when we bought all of them in 1999. If you make a compound that works, we are available to do confidential testing. (As far as testing, I dearly wish that there was an available, cost effective fuel compound that did work!) Is there a difference in 100-105 octane race fuels as compared to street pump premium when used in a motorcycle engine? Yes. Some of the best WILL ADD, without a doubt, repeatably, no question about it, 3%-4% power improvement (under 2.6% oxygen content and without nitrobenzene or related compounds). Some of the 100-105 octane race fuels that were not designed for high revving, low compression engines don't work very well at all - making roughly the same power as pump premium. Now.... that was 2002 info - 2004? Even more power from fuels - and still at the ever popular USA $17 to $22 a gallon range! Have a doubt? Get some Nutec or Elf race fuel. You will feel it. And yes, there are some odd compounds in race fuels. One of the above fuels left a brown carb deposit. Wouldn't wash out with gasoline, solvent, carb cleaner, 409, Simple Green, Fantastic or soap and water. Weird. Weirdest - it DID dissolve and drip away in liquid form after being doused with an aerosol can of "Off" mosquito repellant that we had left over from the Brainerd AMA National. It was a waxy deposit....... Factory Pro in one of the only motorcycle Fuel Injection AND Injector matching facilities in the US - We do both and more design dynamometers that deliver .2 hp meaningful resolution and repeatability. We can supply matched sets of injectors for better fuel control and increased power. We can supply up to 1% tolerance injector sets when available. As far as what GJ and KC write, I've grew up reading and rereading everything that they both wrote. I ported an SR500 cylinder head just like GJ did in a magazine project. As I was doing it, I just knew I could spend more time and be more careful and end up with a small port that flowed more than his did. But, that's another "experience" (experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.) Actually, it did work OK. Ask some day. I think that it's still in my home garage, next to the Suzuki Rotary engine oil..... I just wish they would tell you what did work, rather that explaining why something they didn't actually test themselves (like octane rating) doesn't work. It gets perpetuated throughout the industry - causing some nut (me) to spend hours explaining how things work today!! Best wishes and happy 2001! Marc PS - MTBE is a disagreeable compound. Think about what it does to that nice flexible organic rubber (melts) - It is bad for rubber and bad for you. Keep your hands out of gas.

[Howie 882]

I just went and looked on that sight to see if anyone close to me had non-ethanol fuel. Lists a Countrymark 

station a few miles away. Countrymark is a Farm Bureau owned company I believe. Looked up their web site

to see what they have. Looks like a 90 octane is the only non-ethanol fuel. Reason for doing this, my tax person

is also a farmer and mentioned he buys their fuel because of the ethanol. Showed him what I drained from

his mini-tiller and he was shocked.

 

I have seen what daveoman showed multiple times in these small engines. I think also because these thanks  

are vented to the atmosphere does not help because alcohol will attract moisture.  We all store our tractors

in a heated building right! 😛 I do try to treat my fuel to ward some of this off.

[ericj 1,576]

I run 93 octane fuel with sta-bil additive. I've never had any issues with my gas, even after a year. I was told years ago high test gas has detergent in it to keep fuel injectors and carbs clean. I've bought plenty of tractors that had been sitting that have had ethanol problems and talked to guys at shows that have had problems with it. With 87 octane as it ages and looses octane ratings it gets to a point were the engine doesn't run as should if at all. With high test you have more octane to loose and still have the motor run on the fuel. 

 

 

 

 

eric j     

[SylvanLakeWH 24,087]

COSTCO 87 Octane with ethanol. Have run this stuff in all my engines for years and no issues so far... 

 

Stabil over the winter and a shot of seafoam in the tank...

 

[bottjernat1 2,189]

cheap 87 and part of a bottle of heet cause of this cold *ss weather. LOL

[lynnmor 6,762]

12 minutes ago, bottjernat1 said:

cheap 87 and part of a bottle of heet cause of this cold *ss weather. LOL

Why would you add even more alcohol to the cheap gasoline that likely has 10% ethanol?  Heet and other brands of gas line anti-freeze is basically a scam and hasn't been needed for many years.  If you use ethanol free gasoline and suspect that somehow you got water in the tank, well maybe then it has a purpose if you can't simply add E10.

[bottjernat1 2,189]

Just now, lynnmor said:

Why would you add even more alcohol to the cheap gasoline that likely has 10% ethanol?  Heet and other brands of gas line anti-freeze is basically a scam and hasn't been needed for many years.  If you use ethanol free gasoline and suspect that somehow you got water in the tank, well maybe then it has a purpose if you can't simply add E10.

I dont know i always have my late dad use to and so i have. also they are metal tanks in most of my equipment and there is such a thing of condensation. it happens. it hasnt hurt anything we have had i even put a bottle in my cars when winter first hits. never failed me yet.

[Navig8r 132]

I have had issues caused by ethanol in fuel in my small engines, especially in the carburetors, and especially in things that are only run occasionally... Problem is ethanol containing fuels seem to 'turn' way sooner than non ethanol.... 

I have been using 91 non-ethanol for the past 5 years in my small engines.. it is available to me here in NY at certain Stewarts Shops.... https://www.stewartsshops.com/find-a-shop/

 

Definitely notice a difference in performance, and I have had NO stability issues with stored fuel in machines.

 

Keep in mind that Ethanol had less energy than Gasoline for a given quantity.. From The Alternative Fuels Data Center: "1 gallon of E10 has 96.7% if the energy of one gallon of gasoline."

 

 

[ebinmaine 62,953]

Just now, bottjernat1 said:

never failed me yet.

With all due respect sir. Be careful of that last word.

 

Marketing Executives have been doing a wonderful job of telling us what we ... need to know... And a lot of it is stretching the truth to say the least.

 

There is a very very good reason why ethanol is illegal to use in a plane and many lobbies are trying to make it unlawful to put it in boats as well.

 

[bottjernat1 2,189]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

With all due respect sir. Be careful of that last word.

 

Marketing Executives have been doing a wonderful job of telling us what we ... need to know... And a lot of it is stretching the truth to say the least.

 

There is a very very good reason why ethanol is illegal to use in a plane and many lobbies are trying to make it unlawful to put it in boats as well.

 

will do i understand what your saying. My late dad knew his stuff and had worked on tractors all his life. never had an issue except he did complain about the new gas seeming to have to much water in it. i caught one of our local gas stations with a garden hose after hours from the building to his tanks one winter like 5 or 6 years ago my dad got gas from there that week and had all sorts of issues out of his truck. and so now when the weather is as cold as it is here now. This guys station only has 2 pumps working right now out of like 8 he has! i wont ever buy gas there i had issues to. got to watch some of these places always trying to stretch a buck . which as you know water and gas doesnt mix but for some reason  this fella has pump issues now and other friends of ours had vehicle troubles. we ran a 2 cylinder john deere on straight ethanol once it lost a few horse power but ran. LOL! To each there own.  This debate is no different than what type of oil to use. 

[ebinmaine 62,953]

2 minutes ago, bottjernat1 said:

  This debate is no different than what type of oil....

To some extent I agree with that but facts are facts and science doesn't lie.

 

Please understand I'm not trying to be negative or argumentative.

 

I don't know what time peroid Ethanol was introduced into gasoline at the pump but I would venture to say it has only been a couple of decades in most places.

we are now reaching a point in time where we have been using it long enough that we have discovered that it has extremely serious detrimental effects on not only rubber of several different types but aluminum as well.

 

Aluminum. What is your engine made of? The cylinder head is aluminum.

 

I do understand that we all have ways of doing things that may or may not be the same way as everybody else but the fact of the matter is we learn from our mistakes and those of others.

 

go online and search around and see why airplanes are not allowed to use ethanol.

 

this is not a contest of he-said-she-said or I Told You So or I'm better or worse than this person or that person.

 

Ethanol is bad for your engine. There is literally no way around that.

 

Again, just trying to help... I've seen the negative effects of it eating a lawn mower carburetor in as little as two years. That is not an exaggeration. Two years.

 

 

[bc.gold 3,399]

Octane History https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/question901.htm

 

The name "octane" comes from the following fact: When you take crude oil and "crack" it in a refinery, you end up getting hydrocarbon chains of different lengths. These different chain lengths can then be separated from each other and blended to form different fuels. For example, you may have heard of methane, propane and butane. All three of them are hydrocarbons. Methane has just a single carbon atom. Propane has three carbon atoms chained together. Butane has four carbon atoms chained together. Pentane has five, hexane has six, heptane has seven and octane has eight carbons chained together.

 

It turns out that heptane handles compression very poorly. Compress it just a little and it ignites spontaneously. Octane handles compression very well -- you can compress it a lot and nothing happens. Eighty-seven-octane gasoline is gasoline that contains 87-percent octane and 13-percent heptane (or some other combination of fuels that has the same performance of the 87/13 combination of octane/heptane). It spontaneously ignites at a given compression level, and can only be used in engines that do not exceed that compression ratio.

 

During WWI, it was discovered that you can add a chemical called tetraethyl lead (TEL) to gasoline and significantly improve its octane rating above the octane/heptane combination. Cheaper grades of gasoline could be made usable by adding TEL. This led to the widespread use of "ethyl" or "leaded" gasoline. Unfortunately, the side effects of adding lead to gasoline are:

• Lead clogs a catalytic converter and renders it inoperable within minutes.
• The Earth became covered in a thin layer of lead, and lead is toxic to many living things (including humans).

When lead was banned, gasoline got more expensive because refineries could not boost the octane ratings of cheaper grades any more. Airplanes are still allowed to use leaded gasoline (known as AvGas), and octane ratings of 100 or more are commonly used in super-high-performance piston airplane engines. In the case of AvGas, 100 is the gasoline's performance rating, not the percentage of actual octane in the gas. The addition of TEL boosts the compression level of the gasoline -- it doesn't add more octane.

Currently engineers are trying to develop airplane engines that can use unleaded gasoline. Jet engines burn kerosene, by the way.

[bottjernat1 2,189]

43 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

To some extent I agree with that but facts are facts and science doesn't lie.

 

Please understand I'm not trying to be negative or argumentative.

 

I don't know what time peroid Ethanol was introduced into gasoline at the pump but I would venture to say it has only been a couple of decades in most places.

we are now reaching a point in time where we have been using it long enough that we have discovered that it has extremely serious detrimental effects on not only rubber of several different types but aluminum as well.

 

Aluminum. What is your engine made of? The cylinder head is aluminum.

 

I do understand that we all have ways of doing things that may or may not be the same way as everybody else but the fact of the matter is we learn from our mistakes and those of others.

 

go online and search around and see why airplanes are not allowed to use ethanol.

 

this is not a contest of he-said-she-said or I Told You So or I'm better or worse than this person or that person.

 

Ethanol is bad for your engine. There is literally no way around that.

 

Again, just trying to help... I've seen the negative effects of it eating a lawn mower carburetor in as little as two years. That is not an exaggeration. Two years.

 

 

I may just eat my words. My daughters 875 has been sitting with e85 in the tank and carb since 2015 and sitting outside. so when i go this spring to start it i will let you know how it does. i put fresh gas, stabilizer, fresh oil, and a new plug in it when parked. i will do an up date when the weather changes. Thanks for the info!

[aghead 72]

I run mix gas (2 stroke, chainsaw, weedeater) gas in every gas motor I own. I have been for 22 years. I do not read the gas pump, just which is cheape$t.

This past year I changed my mix oil to Stihl synthetic. Prettiest aqua blue/greenish gas ever. I use the smallest oil to 1 gallon gas.

I don't get smoke or soot from it. Pressure washer, saws. weedeater, logsplitter, 8 & 10 Hp kohlers, a honda pump, golf cart,16Hp Onan on Miller Bobcat...

(oops, Not the Hyundai) All else I have is diesel. I wish all I have were diesel, I have a 500 gallon stand tank and a 100g transfer tank, both filtered, never an issue, I just change those filters and the equipment filters couple times a year.

...I just remembered, in 1997 I bought my first Pro Stihl saw. I put my older outdated Jonsared saw up on a high rack shelf.

In 2004 I was cleaning shop to take crap to the auction and came across the old Jons' saw, got it down, cranked it a few times...it started. 7 yrs on the shelf gas!

It brought $100. at that auction...same gas still in it.

[bc.gold 3,399]

Most carburetors are made from die cast zinc aka pot metal so when it comes into contact with an ethanol based fuel contaminated with water the carburetor essentially becomes a sacrificial anode.

 

From the list of metal below zinc in the image below these would be a much better choice to have a carburetor made from, but die cast is cheap and easy to work with. A metal slug is electrically heated just below becoming liquid, in putty form the slug is formed into a finished product in a set of dies.

 

https://www.belmontmetals.com/properly-installed-zinc-anodes-protect-metal-components/

Taming corrosion

A properly installed Zinc anode protects metal components

Corrosion is a destructive force. When certain metals come in contact with water, they can begin to degrade quickly. But in the case of storage tanks, steel water or fuel pipelines, and boats, contact with both fresh and saltwater is necessary.

Cathodic protection using sacrificial anodes can increase the life of metal parts. Sacrificial anode systems don’t need any external power sources and are easy to install and monitor.  However, it is important to evaluate the amount of protection required to ensure the entire system functions properly.

 

The amount of current needed for a sacrificial anode to work depends on which metal or alloy the anode is made from and its size and shape. An experienced anode manufacturer, like Brooklyn, New York-based Belmont Metals, will be able to ensure its product line conforms to established standards for anodes. Belmont Metals has been manufacturing cathodic anodes made from Zinc and Zinc alloys for more than 50 years and recommends them for marine use, storage tanks, and steel water and fuel pipelines.

 

Once an anode’s output has been verified, the requirements for a specific application can be calculated. For a ship, first calculate separately the total immersed area of the steel hull as well as the total area of cathodic metals. Once you have that number, plan for one AZI Type 6-23 (6 inch by 12 inch, 23 pound) or Type ZHS-23-inch Zinc anode for each 100 square feet of immersed steel hull area and one for each 5 square feet of cathodic metal—propellers, shafts, bearings and rudders.

Place the majority of the anodes on the stern half of the ship near the propeller. Often, the anodes on a ship can be installed end-to-end parallel to and below the bilge keel along each side of the vessel, which minimizes parasitic drag. Anode locations on barges, buoys, and pontoons are not critical, but in general, the anodes should be evenly spaced for good current distribution.

 

When installing a Zinc anode, remove the galvanizing from the straps and weld all four straps to the hull. The anode can be bent to conform to the contour of the mounting surface if the bending radius is no smaller than 15 inches and the anode is heated to a temperature of between 200 degrees and 400 degrees Fahrenheit. Do not paint or coat the Zinc anodes; however, the other metals can be painted to help extend their lifespan as well as the lifespan of the Zinc anode.

 

Using these calculations, a tugboat that has an immersed hull area of 1,000 square feet and a 4-foot-diameter, three-bladed bronze propeller will need a minimum of 17 anodes—10 Zinc anodes for its hull and seven Zinc anodes to protect the propeller’s 32 square feet (one anode per each 5 square feet of bronze). If fewer than 17 are installed, the hull and propeller may be inadequately protected. If more than 17 are installed, the total life of the anodes may increase. Normal lifespan for these types of Zinc anodes in seawater is approximately one to two years.

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by bcgold

[BOB ELLISON 2,976]

This is a on-going subject and there is so many different opinions on it.

I for one say ethanol is bad for these small engines because I have had problems in the past.

I totally agree with @daveoman1966 ethanol gas is totally bad.

I have a hard time finding ethanol free gas here in the winter because both boat storage-dockage places that sell gas are closed . 

I use star-tron and MMO or Sta-bil in  my tanks to help,  so far so good.

I did a post on what happened to my B80  after a few months of sitting in side my garage. I did clean this carb when I bought it. that's why I know it happened .

Here is the post I did.

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/72617-unleaded-gas/?tab=comments#comment-690828

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by BOB ELLISON

[formariz 11,849]

I can see that this is another one of those topics where there are many different opinions and many are somewhat passionate about it. So with the risk of having my head taken off, here is my take on it.

 

I know ,understand, and believe all of the detrimental effects that alcohol laced fuels have on engines. We have to however get used to it because it is just not going to change. Now, here comes the dangerous part for me. Are we just making to o much of a big deal about it?? In first place in certain states such as here, there just is not another viable option as to what fuel you use. Not only it is not available, but the option of going to an airport or marina to get fuel for something that it is not an essential part of everyday life, considering the traveling time and cost per gallon is just not a sensible one.I use tractors often and it is not unusual for me to need at least 5 gallons in any given week, depending on the season.Just not sensible to drive one hour each way to get fuel. Also less sensible to keep a larger quantity of it due to safety issues. Honestly, I have never had one single problem due to the fuel that I use. Photos such as what Dave posted has only happened on tractors that arrived here that way. Who knows how long they were essentially abandoned to get that way? I have here tractors that have used this fuel for 10 years without ever having their carburetors cleaned. Occasionally I merely drop the bowls to get a look at them and never found anything like that in there. As for fuel line deterioration, again I never really had an issue with that. In any case I occasionally change them when I see that they are little cracked or dry outside. That should be a maintenance item anyway that everyone should do every few years at least. We change hoses in our cars as preventive maintenance, so why not do the same with fuel lines on our tractors? I treat them the same as belts. Why go until something creates a problem? They are easy and relatively inexpensive to change. I use stabilizer on tractors that sit for a while with fuel in them, and the proper amount of Sea foam on every fuel tank on the ones that get used often.

 

So my solution to the question of what fuel to use is; use what is readily available, use fresh fuel, use stabilizer, do preventive maintenance and don't drive yourself nuts over it.

[Lee1977 6,211]

*It is my understanding that not all gas in ethanol pumps contains ethanol. I have read that they don't make enough for all the gas sold. If they don't have the ethanol they have to pay the government so in the end the consumer pays for the ethanol in the price of gas anyway. That may be why some people don't have ethanol problems with their equipment.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Lee1977

[bc.gold 3,399]

1 hour ago, formariz said:

I can see that this is another one of those topics where there are many different opinions and many are somewhat passionate about it. So with the risk of having my head taken off, here is my take on it.

 

I know ,understand, and believe all of the detrimental effects that alcohol laced fuels have on engines. We have to however get used to it because it is just not going to change. Now, here comes the dangerous part for me. Are we just making to o much of a big deal about it?? In first place in certain states such as here, there just is not another viable option as to what fuel you use. Not only it is not available, but the option of going to an airport or marina to get fuel for something that it is not an essential part of everyday life, considering the traveling time and cost per gallon is just not a sensible one.I use tractors often and it is not unusual for me to need at least 5 gallons in any given week, depending on the season.Just not sensible to drive one hour each way to get fuel. Also less sensible to keep a larger quantity of it due to safety issues. Honestly, I have never had one single problem due to the fuel that I use. Photos such as what Dave posted has only happened on tractors that arrived here that way. Who knows how long they were essentially abandoned to get that way? I have here tractors that have used this fuel for 10 years without ever having their carburetors cleaned. Occasionally I merely drop the bowls to get a look at them and never found anything like that in there. As for fuel line deterioration, again I never really had an issue with that. In any case I occasionally change them when I see that they are little cracked or dry outside. That should be a maintenance item anyway that everyone should do every few years at least. We change hoses in our cars as preventive maintenance, so why not do the same with fuel lines on our tractors? I treat them the same as belts. Why go until something creates a problem? They are easy and relatively inexpensive to change. I use stabilizer on tractors that sit for a while with fuel in them, and the proper amount of Sea foam on every fuel tank on the ones that get used often.

 

So my solution to the question of what fuel to use is; use what is readily available, use fresh fuel, use stabilizer, do preventive maintenance and don't drive yourself nuts over it.

 

I use pump gasoline with out any additional additives or conditioners in all my small engines without any problems, my comments above were made just to add a bit of spice to the broth.

 

But I do believe by adding a sacrificial anode to your favourite tractor or hauler trailer the anode will prevent cathodic reactions from taking place. The next time a large screen tv, GPS of cellular phone suddenly quits it maybe due to tin whiskers shorting out components.

 

Zinc is another metal that will grow whiskers, Nasa has an interesting page on whiskers and some of the equipment in orbit that has become nonoperational. https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/

 

So even without the ethanol added to gasoline zinc as in die cast is a bad choice of material for many things we use and rely on.

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by bcgold

[bc.gold 3,399]

Toyota accelerations revisited—hanging by a (tin) whisker

Several accelerator pedal position sensors had tin whiskers that could cause short circuits. A NASA paper delivered at the International Tin Whisker Symposium last year reported on tin whisker growth in Toyota accelerator pedal position sensors that, depending on pedal rate of movement, could lead to unintended acceleration.

The whiskers were found in a "failed" sensor from a 2003 Camry and at least two other similar units that did not malfunction. The sensor in question was used on the Camry from 2002 to 2006 model years, and the specific Camry with the defective sensor (which was furnished to NASA) had 82,000 miles on it. The vehicle owner reported the car as "undrivable," with throttle response as: "I couldn't get any 'gas', and then the car would jerk forward at a rapid rate." The sensor had at least 17 whiskers in it, only one of which shorted contacts.

 

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1264373