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Jason B

Can you help ID this wheel horse?

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Jason B

@WHX21 Woah... I'm missing most of the mount. If you are willing to part with it, I would love to have it. Want to PM me with specifics on the trade?I appreciate it!

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WHX??

Let me dig one out and its yours for shipping. PM me your address. Like Cas said some day might pass it forward. Lots of my parts tractor scores have the bracket on it and I don't use them so no point in not sharing.  All of my attachments are front or mid mount.

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dells68

Ok, hate to admit it, but this just shows you what kind of guy @WHX21 is.  He’s a super guy even though he can’t keep a garage as neat as I can😂.  Things like this are why this is the best site out there and the only one I belong to! 

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ClassicTractorProfessor

@dells68 you took the words right out of my mouth, this is what makes RedSquare the best there is and keeps us all coming back. There is never any of the bashing of the new guys that I see on so many other internet forums, only a warm welcome from a bunch of guys with one common interest, who are more than willing to go out of their way to help a fellow member get his tractor up and running again. That being said, @Jason B welcome to RedSquare and nice score on your new 552 as well as all the other neat stuff you scored as well, good luck with getting it up and running again.

 

Oh and by the way I thought you were here close by to me at first until I saw Texas. We have a Quinlan OK, just a very small community about 40 miles from me lol

Edited by Professor1990
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Jason B

What is the correct color of white for the wheels and embossed lettering on the front of the hood/grill? I ordered some tri-rib front tires and would like to paint the wheels before they get here. 

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WHX??

I personally use Rustoelum  linen beige but it really is up to your personal tastes. The correct color is a never ending debate around here so it's a lot like throwing hand grenades...just get it close! :lol:

more info

 

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dells68

I’ve found that I personally like the Rustoleum Almond.  It looks brighter on the wheels when mounted than when you spray it.  It is a very pleasing creamy white. Just my $.02.

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Jason B

So more of an off white as opposed to a bright white?

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WHX??

Yup like a antique white. Some guys prefer white white , and claim that's what color it was when it came from the factory.

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dells68

I’ve had a few original rims and they were definitely an off white.  I think the only horses I’ve seen with bright white are the early 80’s Work Horse series tractors.

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Achto
On 1/14/2019 at 11:45 AM, Jason B said:

What is the correct color of white for the wheels and embossed lettering on the front of the hood/grill?

 

International Harvester off white looks good also.

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WHX??

I think I misled you some Jason, my bad.

After checking through some manuals I discovered the axle bracket did not not come with the HY kit. Just the bracket you already have on your lift arm and a u-bolt. to attach it to the axle housing.

The axle bracket I showed must have been a accessory for a tractor with an HY AND a attachment that mounted to the rear such as a front or mid blade. All you need to do is find an appropriate u-bolt or fab a plate and some hardware.

Capture.JPG

Edited by WHX21
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WHX??

Don't know if you have some of these manuals But here they are, Sort through them for what you can use.

There may be more in the files section where these came from.

HY-2_A-7140.pdf

Prior Models Section VI - Attachments and Accessories.pdf

WH61-90 _026 Engineering Changes Orig.pdf

WH61-90 _042 Hydraulic pump repairs Orig.pdf

WH61-90 _053 Hydraulic HY pumps Orig.pdf

WH61-90 _053 Hydraulic units Improved idler gear.pdf

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bottjernat1
On 1/12/2019 at 11:40 AM, dells68 said:

Ok, hate to admit it, but this just shows you what kind of guy @WHX21 is.  He’s a super guy even though he can’t keep a garage as neat as I can😂.  Things like this are why this is the best site out there and the only one I belong to! 

i am the same way. LOL I have tons of parts and when my late dads friends and my friends ask me do you have this i normally say yes i do just let me find it first. LOL 

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Jason B

OK guys, got my new stator and coil parts. Do I need to start a new thread for this? The new charging coils are significantly bigger than the old ones. I partially disassembled them (removed the fiber plates from the outside edge and trimmed the fiber plates on the bottom to clear the stator plate - made sure to keep insulation between the coils and the stator plate by using the box the new coils came in to make a thin insulator) and gently drove them on to the stator plate lugs. I had to use a file to clean the laquer from the inside corners of the lug holes, but I was very careful not to penetrate the insulator. They are an extremely tight fit, and will not be going anywhere. As a little extra insurance, I spread the laminations a little on the outside of the coils. I was able to remove the old retaining clips and keep them in a usable state, but there is simply not enough room. I have the charging coil wiring figured out. I just need to order some fiberglass heat resistant insulator, extend the coil wires by 2", and replace the magneto wire (its missing insulation in several places) and that component will be good to go. I am pretty sure the plug was wired wrong, and that is why the old coils fried when I hooked up the battery. The rectifier plat on the side of the cylinder is missing its femal plug end, so a previous owner use crimp on terminals to wire the ends together. 

The ignition coil - it is different than the original. I have no doubt it will work, but the wiring looks different. The instructions say to ground the coil to the stator plate, but which wire is the ground wire? There are two connectors - one with a green insulated wire, and the other with the two ends of the coil hooked to one terminal. The green insulated wire will not reach the post with the capacitor and magneto wire, but that does not mean it doesn't go there. This is not the correct part number. I feel like I have one shot at this, and I don't want to screw it up again. So take a look at the pics if you would, and offer some advice or experience. Thanks!

110035 - The old stator plate, new igntion coil, and new charging coils. You can see the three wires coming from the ignition coil. One goes to the ground screw at the capacitor, and the other connects with the magneto wire and capacitor wire on the insulated lug to the right. I just don't know which one goes where. 

110054 - View showing how close the charging coils are going to be to the I.D. of the flywheel - I hope they don't touch!

111115 - Size comparison of old and new charging coils.

111133 - Height comparison of old and new charging coils.

110702 - What happens when you combine a PO fond of rigging things and a clueless new owner... carnage!

 

20190117_110035.jpg

20190117_110054.jpg

20190117_111115.jpg

20190117_111133.jpg

20190117_110702.jpg

Edited by Jason B

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formariz

Blue wire on new coil is always too short . Add to it and it goes to the terminal with plastic insulator along with wire from condenser. It is usually solid wire so I always use that type of electrical connector and tuck it behind plate. Those two bare wires are grounds. You can attach them to condenser screw.

 

Coils are larger but yours seems larger than what I remember.I may take mine apart and check it. I remember using a socket that fit in flywheel hole on the inside and placing magneto on it to see if it coils would rub on flywheel. Make sure that does not happen.You could also use a piece of something like plastic laminate and place it around lamination ends to see if outer edges of coils clear. Remember that if they do you can just take them out for now and use it without them until you work something else out.

You are getting close to now having to set timing. Remember that engine is extremely finicky with that. Below is information and a video on how to do it. I use the video method with the exception of the dial indicator which I do not own. I use a correctly sized washer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XqMo3gUWJo

How to Set the [Points and Condenser] Ignition Timing on an Aluminum Block Flathead Tecumseh Engine - Top of page

First of all, on virtually any spark-ignition engine, advancing or retarding of the ignition timing is performed by widening (advancing the timing) or narrowing (retarding the timing) the ignition point gap, and on all Tecumseh engines with ignition points/condenser ignition, this is performed by rotating the ignition stator (the aluminum part the ignition points, condenser/capacitor and coil are fastened onto) one way or the other. On all aluminum block flathead Tecumseh engines, the entire ignition system is located under the flywheel. (There is no ignition points lobe on the camshaft.)
  1. tecstatr.jpgUse a feeler gauge to set the ignition points at .020" with the end of the plastic lever ignition points arm is on the highest side of the rubbing block (ignition points lobe) in alignment with the arrow (6). And make sure the feeler gauge, ignition points contacts and rubbing block are absolutely clean of dirt or debris, too! Also, it's important to apply a small amount of motor oil on the lubricator felt or a dab of lubricating grease on the rubbing block to prevent the plastic actuator lever from wearing, which will eventually retard the ignition timing, resulting in hard starting and loss of engine power.
  2. To set the ignition timing, with the cylinder head removed, for all Small Frame Tecumseh engines (up to the small block 5hp; including all walk-behind lawn mowers, certain midsize snowblowers, garden tillers, etc.), rotate the crankshaft in normal rotation (clockwise clockwis.gif when facing the flywheel) until the piston is positioned at .070" BTDC. For all Medium Frame Tecumseh 5hp [medium size block] and 6hp cast iron and aluminum block engines, position the piston at .050" BTDC. And for the Medium Frame Tecumseh 7hp, 8hp and 10hp aluminum block engines, position the piston at .090" BTDC. To set the piston at the correct distance in the cylinder, use a dial indicator or use a large flat washer of either .050", .070" or .090" thickness placed on top of the piston with the washer flush with the edge of cylinder deck.
  3. With the piston set at the correct distance in the cylinder (do not disturb the rotation of the crankshaft), slightly loosen the two stator retaining bolts, and rotate the stator by hand JUST when the ignition points begin to open. It is at this point when spark occurs. Do not rotate the crankshaft to do this! You can visually see when the ignition points begin to open. For a more accurate setting, use a multimeter set on the Ohms (d) resistance (make sure the battery in the multimeter is fully charged) or use a battery-powered test light in the ignition points, with the ignition points acting as a switch to turn the light off and on.
  4. When the timing is correctly set, securely tighten the stator bolts.

NOTE: If the ignition timing is set correct and the engine kicks back upon starting, sometimes, but not always, the compression release mechanism on the camshaft isn't releasing enough compression from the combustion chamber. When this happens, try setting the valve clearances to specs (.008" intake / .010" exhaust) and see if that makes a difference. If the timing is retarded to reduce the possibility of kickback, then the engine will be hard to start, run sluggish and not produce adequate power.

IMG_1648.JPG.349263058880b5f8cc7424161ca65531.JPG

 

.

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Jason B

@formariz Thanks, brother! That is a very detailed explanation, and sounds very easy. I do have a dial indicator and multimeter, so this should be pretty easy. Now... which one is my HT55c? I would assume the 5 and 6 hp cast iron and aluminum block, so .050" BTDC? The engine was not getting spark before all this, so I may still have to replace points/capacitor. Does anyone know what will work in the HT55c? Might as well replace them while I have everything apart... or I could clean up what I have and see if it works. 

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Achto

Just thought that I would send you a pic of how the ram on my Raider is installed. Might give you an idea for mounting yours.

DSCN1926-min.JPG.6485fe132536a750622108f08292ca0e.JPGDSCN1928-min.JPG.d06cfbf0a8ca879d85de8b1a34a29cb9.JPG

 

I can get some better pic's if you are interested.

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formariz
34 minutes ago, Jason B said:

@formariz Thanks, brother! That is a very detailed explanation, and sounds very easy. I do have a dial indicator and multimeter, so this should be pretty easy. Now... which one is my HT55c? I would assume the 5 and 6 hp cast iron and aluminum block, so .050" BTDC? The engine was not getting spark before all this, so I may still have to replace points/capacitor. Does anyone know what will work in the HT55c? Might as well replace them while I have everything apart... or I could clean up what I have and see if it works. 

I have set mine both at .050+/- (penny) and .070+/- (nickel). They both work well .

 

By the way also check this thread for the most recent h55 ordeal next to yours. It is now running.

points --https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecumseh-Ignition-Points-28524-QTY-1-NEW-OEM/123489244032?epid=1101761720&hash=item1cc0885380:g:EnMAAOSwB5lb7CLN:rk:7:pf:0

condenser--( not the correct one should be #28516 but it works i use them)https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=tecumseh+29559&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=tecumseh+condenser&LH_TitleDesc=0

Edited by formariz

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Jason B

@Achto That's very cool! I assume that is not a factory location? I like it! Nice work!  How is your actual hydraulic ram mounted to the machine?

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Achto
19 minutes ago, Jason B said:

How is your actual hydraulic ram mounted to the machine?

Your right not factory location. the ram location might work for you though.

The body of the ram is slid over the foot rest mount. The shaft of the ram is mounted to the lift arm. Full movement with out having the extra bracket on the axel. I'll get you some better close ups tonight.

Edited by Achto
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Achto

I should add a disclaimer here -  A Wheel Horse HY pump can not be run off of the flywheel side of the engine. A :wh: HY pump is made to rotate counter clock wise and needs to drive off of the PTO side of the engine. 

 

The pump on mine is a Century Fox pump made by Hien Werner, the same company that made the :wh: HY pump. My pump is designed to run clock wise and needed to be run off of the fly wheel side of the engine.

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Pullstart
2 hours ago, Achto said:

Just thought that I would send you a pic of how the ram on my Raider is installed. Might give you an idea for mounting yours.

DSCN1926-min.JPG.6485fe132536a750622108f08292ca0e.JPGDSCN1928-min.JPG.d06cfbf0a8ca879d85de8b1a34a29cb9.JPG

 

I can get some better pic's if you are interested.

 

1 hour ago, Jason B said:

@Achto That's very cool! I assume that is not a factory location? I like it! Nice work!  How is your actual hydraulic ram mounted to the machine?

 

1 hour ago, Achto said:

Your right not factory location. the ram location might work for you though.

The body of the ram is slid over the foot rest mount. The shaft of the ram is mounted to the lift arm. Full movement with out having the extra bracket on the axel. I'll get you some better close ups tonight.

 

 

That is the location of the ram on the Charger 12 chassis for “Frank.”  I would believe this was stock, but have no proof.  Here are some more pics, if you can make it out...D8220ACC-DEC5-4136-8835-86180D8A621C.jpeg.526b7f00fd2c427c9da95a84c88cc691.jpeg

 

 

3055133D-7725-46AF-88EA-7AE855C18DF3.jpeg

C598AA8F-2987-4C0E-8132-63F63AFF6C52.jpeg

69DCFC84-0948-440C-BC5C-F09C8B4772C6.jpeg

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Jason B

OK... does this all look correct? Blue wire from ignition coil to insulated stud on points, double wire from ignition coil grounded under capacitor, green "magneto" wire running from regulator/rectifier plate to insulated stud on points, capacitor wire run to insulated stud on points, white wires from charging coils run to regulator rectifier plate. If this is correct, why do I get continuity from both sides of points, even when the points are open? Isn't the "point" of the points to break path to ground momentarily? Test resistance on new ignition coil - 7.4K ohms. Continuity confirmed through charging coils with no ohms. Continuity from ground (stator plate) to both charging coils and ignition coil. Is that correct? Sorry - I am still learning small engine ignition. 

20190117_150048.jpg

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Achto

I believe that the coil windings will give you continuity to ground, same as a light bulb will when testing light circuits. The capacitor may cause the same issue. Disconnect these two from the points and you should get your continuity break that you are looking for.

 

If I'm incorrect on this thought, some one school me please.

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