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Rich16

416-8 '85 Not Charging Battery?

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Rich16

Hi All and happy holidays!

My 416-8 with indestructable Kohler K341 I suspect isn't charging the battery properly (though it doesn't get much use and might be the problem).

When I bought it new in '85 or '86 I think the ammeter stopped working and it was dealer replaced.... and it hasn't worked in years and I've just ignored it.

I'd also noticed that the battery has always needed a lot of charging each season over the years....and presumed it was due to disuse.

Any thoughts as to whether the ammeter is just shot or other issues (ground, etc) and can this engine still charge the battery even when the meter doesn't register anything? I've pulled the files on this and don't really understand how to check charging components?

Having worked on my 'new' '91 520h I'm now very familiar with Onan's and how their charging works (it's now working great thanx to this forum).

Which led me to wondering about my 416-8 and whether it's charging properly - help?

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pfrederi

Check Voltage with the engine running should be 13.6 to a bit over 14.  If not run a jumper wire from the regulator housing to teh battery negative see if you get 13.6 or greater.  (if so clean up the regulator mounting to assure a good ground..  Still no charge find the two white wires that go from engine to regulator.  With you r multi meter on AC engine running better than half throttle you should get 30 or more volts.  if you do regulator is bad...if not then on to the stator as the issue. (not very common)

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953 nut
5 hours ago, Rich16 said:

think the ammeter stopped working and it was dealer replaced.... and it hasn't worked in years and I've just ignored it.

The charging current passes through the amp meter, unless the two wires that go to it have been joined together.

1585922878_1electrical.jpg.b932e8f0b56823a0ec8f30ceb6cc9215.jpg

 

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gwest_ca

I don't think you have an ammeter which measures current.

You likely have a voltmeter and the tractor will operate even if it does not. Check your fuses.

Click on the fuzzy pictures.

 

 

The failure in the service bulletin is cause by running the engine without a battery connected.

My question is if the battery has failed would it cause the same problem?

 

Garry

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Rich16

Many thanks for the replies - everything else on it works perfectly, battery is always attached, fuses are fine (I replaced them anyway and no change), and all other circuits (seat switch, etc) fully operational.

 

It is a voltmeter of course, sorry for the misspeak.

 

Pfrederi - where is the regulator/regulator housing? I've looked several times but the wires just kinda disappear - don't see two white wires?

 

Gary - appreciate the posted manuals and can read the circuit diagragms but don't see where the actual components are to test? It's always the most frustrating thing for me about anything electrical - nothing shows you (like a mechanical drawing does) where anything physically is.

 

It's crazy but after all the problem comments I've read about the 520h's during the TORO era, mines been childs play for me to work on (so far anyway) and everything works on it as well (two knocks on wood table top :-) The rectifier is easy - is that what the regulator is on the 416?

 

I should preface my 520 comments 'with help from my wheelhorseforum' friends!

 

Thanks again all - I think if I can find the regulator I'll be in business - and I'm going to replace the voltmeter since they aren't that expensive.

 

Oh - and on a non-electrical note - any ideas about why I seem to have to remove the sparkplug and spill a bit of gas into the comb. chamber to get it started every season? You can crank until dawn to get it to fire (new fuel filter, new tank filter assbly, new fuel line) after a winter of non-use but adding just a smidge of gas and it'll start right off and keep on goin'. Maybe because I don't use it that much?

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pfrederi

Sorry my bad...I never realized WH went so cheap on a 416-8 and used the unregulated 3 amp system.  I thought that was limited to some low Horse power 300 series.  Just to make sure your head lights only work when the engine is running?  if so you have a fixed charging system 3 amps I have it on a 310-8 with a battery ignition system works but is marginal.  What is your voltage when running???

 

.  Lots may have been changed.  What is the spec number of your engine??

 

Underseat fuel tanks frequently have long cranking times when they have sat for a period.  Takes awhile for the mechanical fuel pump to pull up the gas and fill the carb bowl.  A blast of carb cleaner into the carb will have the same affect as your gas in the cylinder method and is easier.  many of us have put on electric fuel pumps but with your electrical system I don't know.

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Rich16

Thanks Pfrederi - I'll check but think you're correct - it's the unregulated 3 amp system - don't think the lights come on unless it's running but will also re-check.

 

I'll find time to go out and get the engine # but it's the single cylinder K341 Kohler - there really isn't anything of note under the hood to look for (not compared to the '91 520h anyway).

 

You've probably fixed my problem - I bet with 3 amp charging the connections are super-sensitive and probably all need cleaning though its always been stored indoors. It also doesn't get much consistent use.

 

With the arrival of my '91 520h earlier this year I've hardly started my 416 at all - I really like the 520's hydraulics (great with psoriatic arthritis and bad joints) and smooth operation.

 

The issues we've discussed have always been there & I can't remember when the 'replaced' voltmeter also went belly up. But my friend from the ToolCrib on this site had one I got and just have to hook it up.

 

Rats! This explains a lot and I hate to hear there was a better system. But I can't complain - that 416-8 made me a WH fan and has been virtually indestructable - I've hit stuff that would have instantly destroyed a stamped-frame mower, used the tiller to dig up/trench and re-direct water around our house, and a dozen other things. And I'm loving the 520h.

 

 

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gwest_ca

When you are cleaning the terminals and get to the ones coming out from behind the flywheel there are likely 3 wires in one holder. One is the ignition wire, one from the stator to power the lights and one to charge the battery. There will be some tape on this last one close to the plastic terminal holder. Feel that area for a 1/8"-3/16" diameter x 3/8" long diode behind the tape. That is the rectifier that changes the AC current to DC.

 

Garry

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Rich16

Thanks Gary - I never would have figured this out.

 

When the weather here gets a bit better - or if - I'll have to do a deeper dive than I've done so far - I tried tracing the wires from the fuseblock (in the past) but recall it leading to somewhere under the engine that didn't seem very friendly/serviceable without a lot of trouble - but I'll look again now that I have an idea what to look for.

 

Do you have to remove the outer engine flywheel cover to get to this?

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gwest_ca
6 hours ago, Rich16 said:

Do you have to remove the outer engine flywheel cover to get to this?

No.

There is usually about 6" of wire sticking out of the engine with a plastic terminal holder at the end all supplied by the engine supplier. At tractor assembly time that harness is plugged into the tractor harness. Done.

 

Garry

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