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71_Bronco

Starter Solenoid Question

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71_Bronco

After reading a few threads on here regarding solenoids and burnt switches due to draw, I thought I would check out my Bronco 14. In my searching, I came across some info that has made me a little confused.

 

The only parts diagrams I can find are for 1-0422, which is the 1972 Bronco. I have a 1-0421, the '71. Most components are the same, with some minor tweaks (I have the pull-style choke and throttle cables, but I have heard the '72 model has the T bar style that move up and down).

 

On the '72 parts diagram, a solenoid is shown, part number 8658, replaced by 108544.

 

However, In looking at some of my old photos, I do not see a solenoid, nor do I remember taking one off the tractor when i disassembled it.

 

I did buy a new Toro key switch, as my old one was acting up every now and then when I first got it, so I figured I'd just replace it to be on the safe side. I don't want to damage this new key switch if I can help it.

 

Would it be a smart idea to add the solenoid in, even though I don't know if my tractor originally had this part? I'd rather run it on the safe, correct side, than keep it 100% original, as I am building a reliable worker, not a show piece.

 

On a side note, if I do ad a solenoid, does it just go in line between the switch and the starter? Or is it a little more involved than that?

 

Thanks!

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ebinmaine

How many terminals does your ignition switch have?

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71_Bronco
2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

How many terminals does your ignition switch have?

 

5 if I recall correctly

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ebinmaine

that's what I figured you were going to say. I'm assuming that motor does not have a starter generator on it. Regular starter that bolts to the side of the engine and disengages with a gear.

 

I would absolutely defer to someone that has more experience than I do with those but I believe a 5 terminal ignition switch should have had a solenoid in the circuit.

 

If not, I would add one in there anyway.

 

I don't see a reason why you can't follow the electric diagrams for the 1972

Edited by ebinmaine
Fix autocorrect fail

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953 nut

Your '71 Bronco did not have a solenoid when it left the factory, but that problem can be corrected. Here is a link to your present wiring.

Here is a diagram I would suggest you use with a newer five post 103-991 switch and a solenoid.  If your old switch is good you could continue to use it. The added fuse protection and not having direct battery cables running behind your gas tank are a big plus. 

5b202f2559e4b_Mag.ignitiontractor-wiring.jpg.c9ba2b8fc2697f7770291614834b5fd4.jpg

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71_Bronco

I bought part number 92-6785 (replaces part number 101917). According to the '72 parts diagram, that's what I should have for my Bronco 14. on the parts list, it says the 8362 should only be used on the Charger 12 model 1-0402 w/ solid state ignition only.

 

Here's a link to the PDF I was going by: http://www.oldengine.org/members/hiron/Tractor 1972 Bronco 14 Charger 12 Charger 10 Automatics ipl.pdf

 

I was a little confused at first, because I have a 14 hp Kohler with a solid state (no points) ignition, so I thought I should be using the 8362. But the note says only charger, and that the Bronco (B14) uses the 101917.

 

I still do have the old key switch at home. Perhaps I should pull it out and check for a part number. I probably should have done that first.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, yes, the starter bolts to the side of the block near the dip-stick, and engages with a gear that is spring loaded, and moves in line with the starter motor shaft. The gear interfaces with teeth around the outside of the flywheel.

 

Edited by 71_Bronco

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gwest_ca

If you have solid state ignition it is treated the same as magneto ignition. They are self powered and the ignition switch must have a M terminal which grounds the ignition to stop the engine.

 

Garry

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Rob R

If the new switch has an "S" for start/solenoid I would strongly recommend you add a solenoid as this will take the stress off the switch also mount the solenoid is a spot where you can get at it easily and re-place when necessary down the road this additionally makes diagnosis when you have ignition issues a snap.... just saying.  I have done this change on all my old tractors and it has made them much more reliable. 

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gwest_ca

Here is an original 1971 parts manual. Click on the picture first.

Garry

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953 nut

The 103-991 five pole ignition switch will cost less than half what the older switches will because it is used with a solenoid. If you plan to not install the solenoid then you will need the older type switch as they have a 70 amp set of terminals for the "S" contacts.

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71_Bronco

Is there a big difference between the switch I do have (92-6785 / 101917) and the switch I should have (8362)? Does the 8362 have the 70 amp terminal, designed to be used with no solenoid, and the 101917 is lighter duty designed for the solenoid use?

 

The one I bought cost $45.82, and the 8362 cost $74.40 (prices grabbed from parts tree).

 

Since the 8362 is noted as being used on the solid-state Charger, would that one better for my Bronco, since I have a solid state K321 14 hp Kohler? Or does the switch only matter if it is used with or without the solenoid?

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pfrederi

If all the terminals on the switch are male spades then it is a light duty switch and must be used with a solenoid..  if the B terminal and S terminal are thicker  steel drilled and tapped for #10/32 machine screws it is the heavy duty one and can be direct wired...however you can also use a solenoid with it. (just have to fix up the wire ends appropriately to use a ring connector

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71_Bronco
12 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

If all the terminals on the switch are male spades then it is a light duty switch and must be used with a solenoid..  if the B terminal and S terminal are thicker  steel drilled and tapped for #10/32 machine screws it is the heavy duty one and can be direct wired...however you can also use a solenoid with it. (just have to fix up the wire ends appropriately to use a ring connector

 

Based on the photos online, the 8362 looks to have the heavier, tapped terminals on the back, while the 101917 / 92-6785 has plain, male spade terminals.

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ebinmaine

You should be able to go ahead and use your own switch and just add a solenoid in somewhere.

I don't see the necessity in spending the extra money to get the correct switch.

Definitely a good idea to add a solenoid if you are given the chance. As stated previously, it takes most of the amperage out of the switch and leaves it in the larger wires where it should be.

 

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Howie

:text-yeahthat: 

That's exactly what I did with my 69  Raider 12.

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71_Bronco

Sorry I forgot to update this thread.

 

I checked my old, stock switch. It has the heavier, drilled & tapped terminals on the back (2 of the 5). This would match the 8362.

 

The one I purchased from Parts Tree (part number 92-6785 / 101917) has 5 regular spade terminals. None are heavier or drilled & tapped.

 

It looks like technically I have the wrong switch, but since I want to add the solenoid to be on the safe side, I should be okay with the switch I got, correct?

 

Thanks!

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ebinmaine
1 minute ago, 71_Bronco said:

Sorry I forgot to update this thread.

 

I checked my old, stock switch. It has the heavier, drilled & tapped terminals on the back (2 of the 5). This would match the 8362.

 

The one I purchased from Parts Tree (part number 92-6785 / 101917) has 5 regular spade terminals. None are heavier or drilled & tapped.

 

It looks like technically I have the wrong switch, but since I want to add the solenoid to be on the safe side, I should be okay with the switch I got, correct?

 

Thanks!

Yes, provided that is the correct switch for your type of ignition.

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953 nut

Here is a diagram for an electrical system using a magneto ignition and solenoid. The terminal arrangement on your switch may not be the same as the 103-991 ignition switch shown so you will need to work that out. If your switch has an "I" terminal rather than a "M" you can not use it.

5b202f2559e4b_Mag.ignitiontractor-wiring.jpg.c9ba2b8fc2697f7770291614834b5fd4.jpg

Edited by 953 nut

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71_Bronco

according to this link:

 

 

it looks like the one I purchased has the "I" terminal rather than the "M" terminal.

 

That link says it should work on my Bronco 14

 

EDIT: Looks like it will work with the '72 Bronco. Not sure if the '71 is the same.

Edited by 71_Bronco
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pfrederi

In your #6 post you indicated you had a breakerless ignition.  If you have a triangular shaped coil on the front of you blower housing (#61) it is breakerless and you should NOT repeat NOT use any ignition switch that has an "I" terminal. You can go to lowes /HD and find 5 terminal switches that have an M terminal and use it with a solenoid.

 

 

 

coil.JPG

Edited by pfrederi
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71_Bronco
1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

In your #6 post you indicated you had a breakerless ignition.  If you have a triangular shaped coil on the front of you blower housing (#61) it is breakerless and you should NOT repeat NOT use any ignition switch that has an "I" terminal. You can go to lowes /HD and find 5 terminal switches that have an M terminal and use it with a solenoid.

 

 

 

coil.JPG

 

Correct, I have a breakerless ignition, and I have parts 61 and 59 on my motor.

 

Looks like I will have to get the other part number for the correct switch.

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pfrederi

Wheel Horse didn't make switches they bought them just like other manufactures did.  The 5 pin is fairly standard with either an M terminal or I terminal.  About the only variations are in the hole size in the dash board they use.  You can get one in a big box store...

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953 nut
2 hours ago, 71_Bronco said:

Looks like it will work with the '72 Bronco. Not sure if the '71 is the same.

That is a situation we encounter frequently on RedSquare. The model name remained the same but significant changes were made from year to year that can trip you up. Glad you were perceptive enough to check things out rather than making a costly error.   :text-bravo:

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pfrederi
4 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

That is a situation we encounter frequently on RedSquare. The model name remained the same but significant changes were made from year to year that can trip you up. Glad you were perceptive enough to check things out rather than making a costly error.   :text-bravo:

 

 

Not to mention the swaps/changes made over the years by various owners....

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Anglo Traction

You may find this Service Bulletin a handy read to identify Switches of that period #134.

Also one point to bear in mind is that the Switch 101917 is a 4 position (Off- Accessories-Run-Start), they can be found on 72 Raiders with a solenoid

 

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