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GT-14 resurrection thread

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ZXT

The transmission only had a a tiny bit of oil in it. No water. I pulled two port caps out of the top of the hydro unit and poured some ATF in. I let it sit a while and then I grabbed the pulley and put some twist on it - it moved about two inches. I let it sit for about an hour, came back and I was able to easily move it back and fourth about an inch. I poured some more ATF in it, rocked it a few times and it began to spin freely. I kept pouring small amounts into one of the ports on top and it would suck it in as soon as I turned the pump. 

 

I'm going to get a new filter and fill it up with oil tomorrow. Hopefully the unit is good. I believe it was just dry stuck. 

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ZXT

The fuel pump is bad, the engine knocks, it likes to throw the drive belt off and it doesn't move. The only thing that seems to work is the deck lift ram. It moves when you press the lever. 

 

On a happier note, the gas tank is fixed and installed, and it's temporarily wired up good enough to start it with the key. USPS delivered my fuel shut off valves today. I've never had anything delivered on a Sunday before, but I'm not going to complain! 

 

I'm a little discouraged at this point. I have access to another K321, but I'm not sure if it's any good. Even if it is, the hydro unit is apparently bad, and I don't want to spend $400 for a unit to fix a $100 tractor.

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Pullstart

Bummer that it needs so much work.  One of those jack up the lug nuts and replace everything projects.

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ZXT

I'm going to start looking for a C series parts tractor... That way maybe I can use the hydro unit and the deck parts and make it a viable tractor again. In addition to the K321 that I mentioned in the previous post, I believe my neighbor has one that came out of a Deere. Not sure what's wrong with it, or if its even a 14 horse. We'll see.

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953 nut

Much of the information in this thread will be applicable to your transplant from the C. It is a great read.

 

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19richie66

Don’t get discouraged. I paid $400 for mine and it ran and moved when I got it. After getting it home and trying it out, it started smoking worse and worse. The transmission was strong but made a nice grinding noise the more I drove it. I was just happy to finally get a GT14. They are nearly non-existent in Florida. At least where I am. And I know I have put more than $400 in a $400 tractor. But, I would do it again in a heartbeat. I love this thing and I don’t even have all the bugs worked out yet. Sell it? Not a chance. If you can find a parts tractor with an Eaton 1100 in it, I will help walk you through it if you decided to go that route. I do have a complete C-175 Sunstrand transmission assembly here on the floor if you were closer I’d give you. Not sure how much shipping would be on just the pump but if you could arrainge it with fastenal, I’ll send it to you. I know it worked when I stripped the tractor down. I was going to use it in my rat tractor that I stopped. I can’t guarantee it but I know it worked. It’s a chance. Good luck with whatever you decide. I’ll help as much as I can. 👍

Edited by 19richie66
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ztnoo

 

On 10/20/2018 at 6:10 PM, ZXT said:

The transmission only had a a tiny bit of oil in it

 

How do you know it was "oil"???

 

To my mind, if you didn't find out the color of whatever fluid was in the Sunstrand before you started dumping something in it, you probably got ahead of yourself.

If you had just unthreaded the drain plug on the back/bottom of the tranny to see what the color of the fluid remaining in the tranny was, that would have given you a clue as to what was in it.

If if was reddish in color, it was ATF. It was a brown or caramel colored, probably oil.

They originally came equipped with ATF and I believe they (the factory) changed fluid types somewhere along the line.

A tranny with one kind of fluid in it, should never have a different kind of lubricant introduced without a total tear down and complete cleaning.

My first year '69, 1-7441 model, came with ATF. That's what I've always used, since my tranny has never been split.

A total fill of the hydro system and lift cylinder requires 5 quarts by the manufacturer's spec.

When I do a filter change and fluid change, 4 quarts or 1 gallon tops things off.

I always assumed there was residual fluid in the cases and the hydraulic cylinder, valve, and lines that doesn't drain.

 

Your tranny may well have never had anything added to it or the filter changed.

The tractor could have been through 10, or 12, or who knows how many owners, who did no maintenance whatsoever.

If the filter is a grungy, dirty mess that when cleaned up says Wheel Horse on it, its probably an original. Good chance anyway.

Is there evidence of old leaks between the tranny case halves and around the axle seals?

Also, you might try opening the tow valve if its closed.

That could make a big difference in the way the tractor can be moved by pushing.

 

I know sometimes the urge to forge ahead when you may not understand fully what is going on with a certain model is strong, but I know from experience, taking a deep breath, putting down a wrench, and asking the guys with lots of expertise here at Red Square what is going on and what are the possible fixes, can pay dividends and avoid big mistakes.

Just food for thought.

 

Regards,

Steve

Edited by ztnoo
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ZXT

Richie, thanks for your offer! I might have to take you up on it. I'll talk to Fastenal and see what it might cost to ship something like that. The pump by itself isn't extremely heavy, is it? I've never held one in my hand so I haven't a clue. I certainly don't expect it for free.

 

Steve, I know it was oil because it was the color of oil and wasn't the consistency of ATF.

 

The "tiny bit of oil" I got out of it was drained from the drain plug on the bottom of the tranny. I'm not sure how else I would have drained anything from it. I put 10w-30 back in it and a Wix filter that did not have a bypass in it. I apologize if it appeared that I was rushing and cutting corners. 

 

After finding that it wouldn't move, I drained the "new" oil out of it. It was disgusting looking, and I believe it has had water in it. I only got about 2 quarts out of it through the drain plug, though I had poured just a hair under 4 in it. I pulled the new oil filter off of it, pulled the spark plug out of the engine and cranked it over with the starter. It pumped 2 more quarts out into the drain pan. Not sure if that was good on the unit, but I figured it was dead. The pump does appear to be pumping since it pumped oil out, but i know that doesn't mean it'll build pressure. The oil filter had some grainy particulate in it, which may have stopped it up. I bought another oil filter, and I plan on flushing it with some clean oil and trying again. 

 

It doesn't appear to leak where the case splits, but the axle seals were wet. I had planned on changing them but wanted to know if the unit worked first. It had an old Wix filter on it, and the trans is not original, so I know it's had some maintenance within the last 50 years. Tow valve is definitely closed. 

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jonah

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meadowfield

slightly late to the show, but I have two GT-14's here in the UK. One still has the original gas tank with only a small amount of distortion from the exhaust. So I must be very lucky!

There is a thread on me splitting the trans somewhere and replacing bearings. 

As for the wiring it's a pretty simply tractor, and not that hard to run fresh wires from the ignition switch to the battery coil and regulator - it was one of the first jobs I did on mine, still not done the lights yet...

 

The fuel pump died after a year and I've limped on for three years by cranking for ages-  just bough a chinese pump for $15 and it has transformed it!

 

 

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19richie66

After looking at the pump this morning, it has the large brake assembly on the right side of it. Should not be a concern with the wider axles on the gt14 and if you worked the linkage right, you could eliminate the parking brake inside the gt14 trans case and use the brake band on the c-175 pump. I'll get a picture later. I'm just tossing it out there should you decide this way. 

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ztnoo

For tranny fluid changes, I lift the rear off the ground and engage the drive with the engine running to move the rear wheels for 5 minutes or so to warm the tranny fluid up to make it flow better. Then I shut the tractor off and lower it back to the ground.

Doesn't sound like that's an option for your oil changes if you can't get the tranny to turn the rear wheels with the tractor running.

Next time you do an oil/filter change, try elevating the front end of the tractor some to help tranny fluid flow to the drain hole on the back of the tranny.

Having the dip stick removed from its tube helps in venting to some degree.

I don't think you can total purge the system because residual oil in the hydraulic lift cylinder, control valve, and hydraulic lines, but try to measure as reasonably accurately as you can what you remove.....it just gives you a relative idea of the volume of fluid you are draining to know where you are with the system.

Just a couple of things I've learn along the way with my GT 14.......

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ZXT

Thanks guys. 

 

I'll have to see if I can find anything stating the dimensions and weight of the unit before I can get a quote on shipping. I thought Fastenal was a bolt company; I didn't have any idea that they shipped items until you suggested it. You learn something new every day! I know the pump is like 1' x 8"x 8", but I'm not sure how big it is with the brake assembly on it.

 

I need to find a woodruff key for the crank pulley. I was running it earlier today after changing the oil and the tractor kind of "lurched" forward a bit and then I saw the pulley spinning on the shaft. It obviously hasn't had a key in it for a while and the set screws weren't even tightened down. It was simply being held in place by rust. I'm not sure if the pump started working and caused it to lurch forward or if it was a coincidence.  

 

Steve, I haven't elevated the front of the tractor any when changing the oil, but it is parked on a slight uphill slope. If I have to change it again, i'll jack it up.

 

Meadowfield, thanks for the info! I'll look at your thread.

 

Thanks!

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ztnoo
15 hours ago, ZXT said:

I need to find a woodruff key for the crank pulley.

 

It's been more than two years since I had my electric clutch and engine pulley off the end of my K341 crankshaft.

I had a somewhat loose engine pulley so I needed to investigate by first removing the clutch from the crankshaft.

I had never done that before and came to learn there was and is a specific procedure to getting the clutch off the crankshaft.

It turned out the two allen set screws at right angles to each other on the engine pulley had loosened only slightly, but enough to cause some slight side to side play which was not going to resolve itself without owner intervention. Further loosening might eventually result in irreversible pulley, keyway, and crankshaft damage.

 

I decided to remove the pulley, examine everything, and clean the crankshaft end, the key slot, and the engine pulley and clutch bores so there were no lubricants to aid future loosening, or foreign matter to increase wear.

From memory, there is no woodruff key on the crankshaft.

The key was a square cut key of sufficient length to run through both the engine pulley and the clutch.

As I recall it was 3/16 x 3/16 square stock, but don't take that as gospel (because I'll be 70 in one month), and memory can fade as we age......  ;)

One of the set screws on the engine pulley is centered over the square stock key and tightened down on top of that.

 

Take a close look at the situation.

Hope this is helpful to you.

 

p.s. Just had the thought about you mentioning changing filters on the tranny. Make sure the filter is for a hydraulic system and not for an internal combustion engine. Engine filters don't have a high enough micron filtering capacity to work properly in a hydraulic system. I use a # 1410 filter from NAPA. It is specifically a hydraulic filter.

 

Steve

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ztnoo

 

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ZXT

Sorry for my slow response times! Midterms this week have had me up to my neck in studying. Between that and work, I haven't had time to do much of anything.

 

The first filter change I did, I used a Wix 51410. The second time, I used a Napa 1410, as it is $5 as opposed to $15. I used Castrol 10w-30 the first time and Walmart brand 10w-30 the second time. Didn't see any reason to waste good stuff again. Being that it has a C-160 trans, the tow valve is on the front of the transmission facing the front of the tractor with a slotted head. I have had it loose and it is tight.

 

The electric clutch is currently off of the engine so that won't be a problem. I'll do some more research and see if I can come up with some 3x16's square stock. 

 

Thanks for the help!

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953 nut
9 hours ago, ZXT said:

come up with some 3x16's square stock.

Any good hardware store will have 3/16" square key stock.

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gwest_ca

Are you sure it is 3/16"?

6507 key Square replaced by 105453 (1/4"x1/4"x1/2")

 

Garry

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ztnoo
29 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Are you sure it is 3/16"?

 

Garry, no I'm not sure at all. I said so previously.

It well may be 1/4" x 1/4"

I do remember it was a couple of inches long however.

 

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19richie66

I believe the keyway is 1/4”x 1/4” square keyway. Mine was about 2-1/2” long and went through the crank pulley and the clutch. I had to buy a 1” to 1-1/8” crank spacer to run the pulley and clutch on the replacement 16hp I put in mine. It came with a 1/4” x 3/16” keyway to make up the height difference with the spacer.

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gwest_ca

8006 key Square (1/4"x1/4"x3-1/8")

 

Garry

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ztnoo
On 10/26/2018 at 2:29 PM, gwest_ca said:

8006 key Square (1/4"x1/4"x3-1/8")

 

Thanks for your research diligence, Garry!

287363815_blue-thumbs-up-mdat25.png.602e42a801dd988ff7db649e7f027f80.png

After looking at my 1-7441 parts list, that part number and those dimensions are exact what is called for in the list.

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ZXT

Thanks for the replies!

 

My research also returned the verdict that it's 1/4 inch instead of 3/16. I'll try to get some today and see what happens!

 

Thanks!

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ZXT

Made huge progress today!

 

I forgot to mention that yesterday I found that they flywheel was loose. That was my knocking sound. Engine is fine. I think it may have partially sheared the flywheel key, as it cranks hard occasionally and it pings some.

 

I got some 1/4 inch stock earlier and cut it to length for the crank pulley and clutch. The hole that the tensioner shaft runs through is wallered out some and it throws the belt, but i have it rigged temporarily where it doesn't. I put my new fuel pump on it so that I could run it longer than I had been by just filling up the fuel bowl. I started it, and pushed the hydro lever to the forward position with a screwdriver since the plastic slide plate (not sure of the proper term) is broken. Nothing happened. Pushed it to reverse. Same result. I forcefully slammed it back into forward and it took off. It was binding on the remnants of the plastic slide plate and wouldn't fully go into forward gear. Reverse works now too. 

 

The tractor seemed extremely sluggish and was actually worse when it was revved up. I looked down to see that the axle was spinning in the hub on the side that the wheel was mostly slid off of when I got it. I didn't have a woodruff key for that, so I temporarily put a piece of 1/4 stock in it so that I could move it around. The hydro unit makes some noise but seems to be strong. I hooked it to my little 85 Toyota pickup and it pulled it with ease. I thought about hooking it to my V10 Dodge truck but I didn't want to push my luck. 

 

I'll have to do some closer looking in the daylight but It has a decent leak, either from the hydro shaft seal or from the oil filter. There was a little gouge in the oil filter sealing surface, probably from someone trying to chisel the filter off in the past, but it didn't look to be across the whole surface. 

 

Now I need to buy a throttle and choke cable and the slide part for the forward/reverse lever and I'll be in business!

 

And most importantly, pictures! 

IMG_3561.JPG

IMG_3566.JPG

Edited by ZXT
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ZXT

The shifter on this thing is confusing me. Can anyone help me out?

 

I've already ordered a new slide cam and i'm waiting on that, but I was looking and the ball stud hits the pivot lever when pushed to the "forward" position. Is the pivot ball supposed to go in the hole that's in the middle of the "slide" part of the cam, or in the one off to the side? Knowing that this unit is from a C-160 makes me wonder if there were differences in the shifter placement.

 

Thanks!

IMG_3586.JPG

IMG_3587.JPG

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19richie66

I believe it goes in the side and the pivot lever button rides in the groove. Sounds like you are chipping away at it. Don’t give up brother. 👍

C395B37B-448D-45D6-8CA7-21623F068187.png

 

 

Edited by 19richie66
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