Jump to content
SaintJay

857 starts but won't run

Recommended Posts

SaintJay

I recently picked up my third (and favorite) horse, a 1967 T857 with an original sickle bar attachment.  It starts with the throttle all the way down and the choke fully closed.  If I adjust either of them, it dies immediately.  I can't figure out where the problem lies.  I have removed and cleaned the carb (Carter Model N) and am in the process of doing that again now to try and find the problem.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ebinmaine

Seems likely you're headed the right direction with an additional carb cleaning.

Have you changed the fuel lines?

Not necessarily the direct cause of the issue but unless they've been done within the last couple years with this ethanol stuff in the gas they will need to be done immediately.

 

It's possible your fuel lines are dissolving from the inside out and sending undesirable granules into the carburetor.

 

I'm curious to see what your cure is and what the others suggest.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wallfish

Once had a problem like that with old gas. It was new gas to me and only a couple of days old but after pulling my hair out for a day on one engine, it was noticed when the second one had the same problem right after filling the tank.

Take a look at the condenser too. - side of the coil and grounded. Usually an engine will idle with a bad condenser but will not throttle up at all

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
The Tuul Crib

I would go the route of the complete tuneup. New points,  plug and condenser. And go from there . Is your  compression good? 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
SaintJay

Fuel lines have been changed and I bought an original mechanical fuel pump and installed it, along with a new condenser and coil, when I got the tractor.  I checked and the pump is sending plenty of fuel.  When I open the throttle even a hair, it dies.  When I open the choke a hair it dies.  Logic tells me that if I increase fuel and air at the same time, the idle should increase, but it dies.  This is driving me crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
SaintJay

Haven't checked the compression.  I have never done that but am willing to learn.  I have been looking at compression testers.  Anyone suggest a good quality one that isn't super expensive?  Should I get one with leak down capability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ebinmaine
4 minutes ago, SaintJay said:

Haven't checked the compression.  I have never done that but am willing to learn.  I have been looking at compression testers.  Anyone suggest a good quality one that isn't super expensive?  Should I get one with leak down capability?

before you check the compression or buy a tester, confirm with one of the other guys whether that particular Kohler has a compression release or not.

I have never checked the compression on my own either but I know some of these engines have to be done in a very particular manner or you get a false reading.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
SaintJay

No compression release (at least as far as I know)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
The Tuul Crib
2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

before you check the compression or buy a tester, confirm with one of the other guys whether that particular Kohler has a compression release or not.

I have never checked the compression on my own either but I know some of these engines have to be done in a very particular manner or you get a false reading.

 

 I have to agree with you Eric on that but I'm sitting here thinking that is possibly a fuel mixture not correctly getting enough. Possibly adjustment on the needle and seat valve? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
SaintJay

I was thinking of getting a cheap replacement carb, while I have the original off for cleaning, to install just to see if it makes a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
The Tuul Crib
50 minutes ago, SaintJay said:

I was thinking of getting a cheap replacement carb, while I have the original off for cleaning, to install just to see if it makes a difference.

 My experience with these carburetors is the Japanese models that are metric sizes .  The line fitting from the carburetor to the fuel pump would not fit the carburetor that I ordered which was a Japanese or Chinese model .Just pick and choose and do a little searching for the right one 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi

If it is the original engine it had ACR so compression testing is not valid.... Did you check the float setting in the carb  11/64"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut
1 hour ago, The Tool Crib said:

I would go the route of the complete tuneup. New points,  plug and condenser. And go from there . Is your  compression good? 

 

 

:WRS:

I got to go along with the tool crib on this. Points, plug and and condenser will never hurt and could yield big benefits.

When you cleaned the carburetor did you dip it in a good quality carburetor cleaner and use compressed air to blow out all passages?

You can find stations in your area the carry non-ethanol gas on this web site.  https://www.pure-gas.org/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
The Tuul Crib
6 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

:WRS:

I got to go along with the tool crib on this. Points, plug and and condenser will never hurt and could yield big benefits.

When you cleaned the carburetor did you dip it in a good quality carburetor cleaner and use compressed air to blow out all passages?

You can find stations in your area the carry non-ethanol gas on this web site.  https://www.pure-gas.org/

Yes non-ethanol gas is also a must. Luckily I have a station within 2 miles of my house where I can get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Mike'sHorseBarn

Don't replace that carb unless the throttle shaft is loose. I'd definitely replace points condenser and plug and see what happens. Also check that fuel pump, I've gotten some duds.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
520HC

CHANGE CONDENSER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
oliver2-44
9 minutes ago, 520HC said:

CHANGE CONDENSER

What he said, even if it new, try another one.

also, I have a K341,16hp that like to sit and idle a few minutes, Like yours it starts immediately with no throttle or choke.  But if I throttle it up immediately it dies. After ideling a few minutes its raring to go and can be throttled up and down wit no problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
SaintJay

I have changed the points, plug, condenser and coil.  I did not dip the carb, I sprayed and used compressed air to clean it.  I was going to get the cheap carb just to see if it made a difference, still want to keep and use the original carb. 

11 hours ago, pfrederi said:

original engine it had ACR

Not sure what this is (automatic compression release?) but there is no manual compression release.  I took off the carb and head last night and will be cleaning the carb again today.  Will double check the float.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut
15 minutes ago, SaintJay said:

Not sure what this is (automatic compression release?)

The ACR is built into the cam shaft and it allows the exhaust valve to open slightly near TDC below 200 RPMs.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut
18 minutes ago, SaintJay said:

have changed the points, plug, condenser and coil.

If rebuilding the carburetor doesn't yield the desired results you may want to check the points setting. The Points gap changes your ignition timing, the "Static Timing" method is the most accurate way to set them.

Kohler static_timing.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

Usually, a closed choke---engine running---try to open choke---engine dies screams sucking air somewhere.  Bad gasket, crack in carb, etc.  Spray carb clean around carb with engine running...any change in RPM and you have found a leak.  :eusa-think:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Indiana_Steve

This a carb issue. Either the float is set wrong, jets dirty, or not getting enough fuel. (filter?). Rebuild the carb . Refuse to pay the exorbitant price for  non-ethanol gas . Regular ethanol gas has worked in my tractors for years with no ill effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

I hate to ask this, but are you sure your choke cable is not coming in from the wrong side...and instead of opening your choke, you are closing it??  If it is like my 857, it should look like this...

DSCF8562.JPG

 

DSCF8561.JPG

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
SaintJay

So I figured I'd give you guys who gave me advice an update.  Stevasaurus put me on the right track.  It was actually a combination of things.  I found a very small leak in the head gasket.  It was under the motor shroud and not visible until I took it off to check the head bolt torque.  I also found that in the main carb needle, the lower hole was clogged.  I cleaned and reassembled the whole carb, took off the head, cleaned it up and installed a little gasket sealer on the metal gasket and put it all back together again.  Seems to have solved the problem and she is running much better now.  I give a heartfelt thanks to all those who gave me advice and put me on the right track, and also for welcoming me here.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ebinmaine
3 hours ago, SaintJay said:

heartfelt thanks to all those who gave me advice and put me on the right track, and also for welcoming me here.

Glad to hear you got your tractor running better.

Good bunch of folks around here.

Much more than just tractor people.

Clear out some room in your shed for more Wheelhorses and stick around for a while.

  • Like 2
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...