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ryanmfairbank

K181 not starting

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ryanmfairbank

Hi group!

 

I have a ‘77 B80....I rebuilt the fuel system from tank to carb and just recently rewired the ignition system...it was starting and running fine, but I noticed a significant oil leak...so, I pulled the motor, broke it down, and replaced every gasket...turns out the bearing plate gasket was 95% gone...

 

So, after putting the motor back on, I put a new plug, plug wire, points, and battery on as well...I go to start it, and nothing! I jumped the starter and it turned right over...so, something is wrong in the ignition circuit...what could it be, and how can I diagnose it? Nothing has changed...it’s the same brand new ignition circuit that worked fine a week ago. And just so you know, all the safety switches were pulled out of this machine years ago.

 

please help...my grass is overtaking my house!!!

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pfrederi

Let be clear on terms.  You say it did nothing (meaning when you turned the ignition switch to start... silence (no cranking) but when you jumped the solenoid it turned over (cranked) but it did it start running??

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WHNJ701

check the wiring make sure it's not grounding out some where, or the solenoid is shot

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ryanmfairbank

@pfrederi You are correct, when I turned the key, nothing, silence...when I jump the starter motor, it turned over, but I didn’t leave the cable on long enough for it to begin running...I just wanted to see where the problem was...

 

@jabelman I know the wiring is correct...Inplan to check the solenoid today....

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ebinmaine

Take the solenoid off and wire brush or sand the bracket so you're assured good ground there.

 

Let us know where your at from there.

It's very likely a simple fix.

Process of elimination of circuits.

 

 

Do you have a DVOM or test light?

 

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pfrederi

After you do what Eric suggested  to assure a good ground Run a jumper wire from the battery positive to the small terminal on the solenoid, if it cranks then the problem is in the ignition switch or the wire from it to the solenoid

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ryanmfairbank

My grounds are good...I have a brand new battery and a brand new solenoid...I tried jumping from the positive on the battery to the small post on the solenoid, and I have nothing...

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ryanmfairbank

This should be a good ground, right...does it matter if the piece that the solenoid is bolted to is in front of or behind the starter??

46153D1C-85A7-424F-BB89-1511349C3764.jpeg

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ryanmfairbank

The cable to the large post on the solenoid was disconnected when I took the photo...

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ryanmfairbank

I only have an analog multimeter, so I’m assuming I can’t check much with that, right?

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pfrederi

It must do ohms...Check from the base of the solenoid to the battery - terminal  should be very little resistance

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ryanmfairbank

Okay...I found that I have two problems...one is that my new 4 gauge ground wire is defective...the second is something is wrong in my ignition circuit...so, I’m going to check the switch and my wiring now...

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ebinmaine
4 minutes ago, ryanmfairbank said:

Okay...I found that I have two problems...one is that my new 4 gauge ground wire is defective...the second is something is wrong in my ignition circuit...so, I’m going to check the switch and my wiring now...

Good to hear you're making Headway with that.

 

Not in any way doubting your expertise or opinion but what is it that makes you think your ground wire is defective?

 

 

Keep in mind we keep bringing up the ground for a reason. That is a DC circuit. Direct current. Your grounds have to be in excellent condition or you will not have Any circuit.

 

Before you go by any new parts, take it out and carefully clean any mounting points and ground surfaces and reinstall it just to check that it isn't actually just dirty.

 

Sounds silly but I've literally had it happen to myself.

 

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pfrederi
16 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Good to hear you're making Headway with that.

 

Not in any way doubting your expertise or opinion but what is it that makes you think your ground wire is defective?

 

 

Keep in mind we keep bringing up the ground for a reason. That is a DC circuit. Direct current. Your grounds have to be in excellent condition or you will not have Any circuit.

 

Before you go by any new parts, take it out and carefully clean any mounting points and ground surfaces and reinstall it just to check that it isn't actually just dirty.

 

Sounds silly but I've literally had it happen to myself.

 

 

 

You can trust your mother you cannot trust your ground....

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ryanmfairbank

No, I believe you, and I understand that it can happen....my father is an electronics tech, but he’s 350 miles away and not often available, although he’s given me some advice....

When I rebuilt the ignition system, I replaced all the wiring, including the 4 gauge wiring from the battery and to the starter....I took the new wire off the ground and just used jumper cables and was able to get it to turn over...so, I got to thinking that that new wire may be defective...I took the jumpers off and put my old wire on, and I was able to once again get it to turn over...I then used an analog multimeter and checked the new cable and there was no continuity...

so....with everything in place, I can jump from my battery to the solenoid and it will turn over...it has to then be in my switch (which is new) or my wiring...I took the switch off, placed a probe on both the battery terminal and the solenoid terminal, turned the key, and have continuity...I also check continuity through those same two wires, and have it...now what? I don’t know...

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ebinmaine
2 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

You can trust your mother you cannot trust your ground....

HAHAHAHAHAHA

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pfrederi

With the ignition switch in start position do you get 12volts measured at the small solenoid terminal???

 

If you do then the solenoid is bad or its ground is bad.

 

 

Edit:  incidentally in the world of electrical stuff these days new doesn't always means it works....

Edited by pfrederi
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ryanmfairbank

I will reconnect everything and see...

 

I’m trying to learn...lol...I was working as an apprentice in a machine shop and going to welding school and had a severe spinal injury...I went through a decade of spinal surgeries and cancer, and my goals of owning a small machine shop and small engine repair shop were sidelined...this is my first project since then, and I’m learning as I go...I rebuilt the fuel system from tank to carb, rewired the ignition circuit, and pulled the motor and replaced all the gaskets...I’ve had to learn much more than I expected from this project, and it’s been both fun and frustrating! lol

I just don’t understand why it started and ran a week ago, and the only thing I’ve done since then is pull the motor to replace the gaskets!? 

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ryanmfairbank

@pfrederi I do not get 12 volts at the small terminal...that’s the problem...I don’t know what else to do...I have continuity between the batter my and solenoid terminals on the switch, and I have continuity through both wires from the switch...I just don’t know what else it could be...

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pfrederi

 

 

Back probe the ignition switch for voltage at the S terminal when it is in start position...  Continuity an the ability to delver adequate current to make things work are two different things.

Edited by pfrederi
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ebinmaine
1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

Back probe the ignition switch for voltage at the S terminal when it is in start position...

 

 

Ryan I think it's absolutely fantastic that although you've been through a lot in your life you're still up and kicking and trying to figure things out.

I started messing around with these tractors about 2 years ago and the members of this site have been so extremely helpful I couldn't even begin to explain it.

I've now rebuilt the entire wiring system on four different Tractors.

you'll figure this out. Just make sure you are not making any assumptions whatsoever.

I sold auto parts for a living for about 12 years and one of the biggest mistakes people would make is to assume that a new part is a working part. The failure rate on the best companies was 1 or 2% and on the worst companies it was about 10 to 12%. It really is possible you have bad parts.

 

Keep making sure that you separate the circuits in the appropriate Manner and you'll eventually figure out which one is giving you headaches.

 

 

 

Paul I really appreciate the help you've given me over the last couple years as well. You're awesome too!

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ryanmfairbank

@ebinmaine Thank you for your kind words! I also homeschool our two teenage children and this is our first project of the new year...so we’re all learning together! 

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ryanmfairbank

@pfrederi so, you are saying with everything connected, place a probe behind the switch on the “s” terminal, turn the key, and see if I get voltage?

 

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ryanmfairbank

I have another switch and tried that as well, and still nothing, so I know that it’s not the switch...

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ryanmfairbank

I guess it’s not out of the realm of possibility that I could have two bad switches...can I try jumping the battery and solenoid wires at the harness? 

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