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Bert

Has anyone put an Onan in a Blackhood?

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Bert

I’ve got a C-165 with 520 front end and rear rims, I’d like to put a 20 hp Onan under the hood so I can use my 60’ deck with it. 

I measured and it looks to fit but wondering if anyone has done this and if so are pics available? 

Thanks

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peter lena

I don't  think the swap will be a problem, space and fitting, wiring will probably be the issue, I would run it on basics first, with out the relay and safety switches, then add what ever you need. question I have, is there a front mount frame available for that 60" deck? building up a bare frame would be the time to make a 60" deck easier to use and service . if nothing else you could use the smaller front mount frame as a model to expand to push that 60 " deck. I think the way to go is to eliminate the size/weight issue on that deck. keeping it out front , will be easier for any issue, rather than fighting it under your tractor. I would also eye bolt ,pick points on that deck to make any service issue easier. pete 

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boovuc

Bert,

 

Just happened to see your post while checking mine in "Other Brands". Just for giggles many years ago, I put a dead P216 on the frame of my C175 while I had the KT out of it. The engine top and muffler came too close to the top and edges of the hood in my opinion. This was also with the KT cradle out of the frame but no plate under the motor.

 

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Sparky

Are we sure that the Kohler 16 won’t spin up that deck? I’m not a fan of the Onans. 

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MalMac

That deck takes a lot of Hp. It has been my observation and experience that the 60” is just too hard on these tractors. You can always tell if a tractor has had a 60 on it. Excessive wear to broken frames. I will say this, that deck is built to last and does a good job of mowing. I am getting way off track here from the original question. 

 

I agree boovuc, I think you will have a little bit of exhaust issues. Not sure of the drive belt gaurd if it’s the same. I am sure there is someone on here that knows more than I. 

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ericj
On 5/21/2018 at 8:21 AM, MalMac said:

Not sure of the drive belt gaurd if it’s the same. I am sure there is someone on here that knows more than I

 

 

 

not sure about the black hoods, but I know the 400 & 500's use a different belt guard for onan's than the single Kohler's. I would try it for sure becuase I am different then most, becuase I like the Onan's. someone said above that there might be a clearance issue with the hood that would need checked out, but by all means try it and see what happens if that is what you want to do. get an onan wiring diagram and with some help from us on here we should be able to talk you through it

 

 

 

eric j 

 

 

 

On 5/21/2018 at 8:21 AM, MalMac said:

 

 

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Bert

Great feedback guys. 

I guess it’s time to start hunting for a parts 520 :D

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Docwheelhorse
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 1:50 PM, Sparky said:

Are we sure that the Kohler 16 won’t spin up that deck? I’m not a fan of the Onans. 

That Kohler will have no issue running that deck if you keep the blades sharp... I'm with Mike---give the Kohler some good maintenance, a good tune up and keep the deck in tip top shape. The Kohler will be more then happy to keep it going for you.

Remember Wheel Horse's rule of thumb... 4" of deck for each HP. 

 

Tony

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ericj
10 hours ago, Docwheelhorse said:

Remember Wheel Horse's rule of thumb... 4" of deck for each HP. 

that means I can run an 80" deck with my 20 hp tractors :hide:

 

 

 

 

eric j

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cleat

I would want all 20 HP for the 60" deck if your grass is thick at all.

 

In heavy thick grass, even the 48" deck will work the 520 a little.

 

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pfrederi

I have to weigh in here.  My Case VAC runs a 72" finish mower. But with the soft ground and heavy wet grass she is working in  second gear (run 3rd) in the summer.    She is about 20hp at the belt (probably also PTO) and 19 at the drawbar (Nebraska Test)  That is with 124 cubic inches and 4 cylinders.  I think  a 16 HP 34 cu inch single would have real problems with  a 5' deck in thick grass.  HP ratings by manufacturers are bogus. My M274 with a twin 42 cu inch overhead valve is only rated at 14 hp.  As we used to say "Ain't no substitute for cubic inches"

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Docwheelhorse
3 hours ago, ericj said:

that means I can run an 80" deck with my 20 hp tractors :hide:

 

 

 

 

eric j

By the numbers yes thats what it means... Ive run a 48 through thick grass with razor sharp blades using a 10 K series... did it like it no... would I recomend it... no. But....

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Docwheelhorse
59 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I have to weigh in here.  My Case VAC runs a 72" finish mower. But with the soft ground and heavy wet grass she is working in  second gear (run 3rd) in the summer.    She is about 20hp at the belt (probably also PTO) and 19 at the drawbar (Nebraska Test)  That is with 124 cubic inches and 4 cylinders.  I think  a 16 HP 34 cu inch single would have real problems with  a 5' deck in thick grass.  HP ratings by manufacturers are bogus. My M274 with a twin 42 cu inch overhead valve is only rated at 14 hp.  As we used to say "Ain't no substitute for cubic inches"

What RPM are your hp ratings... thats the difference... your 19 hp is probably at 2000 rpm. Plus theres alot more gearbox and tractor weight that motor has to push. Ill put a Kohler K341 or MAG 16 one lunger against an Onan twin 20 every day of the week... and Ill get the job done while the other guy goes for a broom and dust pan to pick up the rear valve seat and rod. If he wants a twin look for a Kohler KT Ii or Mag series and run it till the cows come home.

Tony

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pfrederi
37 minutes ago, Docwheelhorse said:

What RPM are your hp ratings... thats the difference... your 19 hp is probably at 2000 rpm. Plus theres alot more gearbox and tractor weight that motor has to push. Ill put a Kohler K341 or MAG 16 one lunger against an Onan twin 20 every day of the week... and Ill get the job done while the other guy goes for a broom and dust pan to pick up the rear valve seat and rod. If he wants a twin look for a Kohler KT Ii or Mag series and run it till the cows come home.

Tony

 

The Nebraska test was designed to show what a tractor could really produce in terms of HP.  PTO were rated at 540,  belt at engine rated rpm.. in this case about 1500.  Rpm is not relevant in the testing. Look up Nebraska tests..  I wish they did them for garden tractors. 

Edited by pfrederi
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ericj
2 hours ago, Docwheelhorse said:

By the numbers yes thats what it means... Ive run a 48 through thick grass with razor sharp blades using a 10 K series... did it like it no... would I recomend it... no. But....

I've also ran 48" decks with a 310-8. I've also ran my 60" deck under a 1990 416-H with the 6" front tires on it, they did rub some, but the tractor ran it, when I use my 520 with the 60" deck and try and go a little too fast through the tall thick stuff, usually only a weeks growth, it will either start to bog the motor or slip the PTO clutch and or the belt. I had a K341 16 HP kohler, and lets be honest, they don't sip gas any more then an onan.

 

Before this blows up into a big argument over Kohler verse Onan, lets agree that most of what we say boils down to personal preference, based on first and second hand experience. It's No difference then Chevy verses Dodge verses Ford. They all made good and bad products, mostly good or they wouldn't have stayed in business as long as they did.

 

We can argue maintenance issues or the lack there off and how forgiving a particular brand is. Each brand has it achilles heel, whether it's and onan valve seat, briggs twins valve seat or a kohler balance gears, the KT's blown rods. 

 

I have or have had at some point most of the twins that wheel horse put on their tractor, from the K532 in a D200 a KT17 in a 417-8, both of witch dad bought either new or almost new,a briggs twin opposed 16, and yes 16, 18, and 20 onans. My PERSONAL preference are the onan, but then again I'm a Dodge Man so that just goes to show what I know right :hide::ROTF:

 

 

 

 

eric j 

Edited by ericj
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Sarge

There are some serious differences between single and twin cylinder engines - the one thing everyone leaves out is the torque. Single cylinder, cast iron engines produce a torque variable because of the weight of their rotating mass - it also packs a serious punch. I have a newer green thing with a 22hp Briggs V-twin - it can't hold a candle against the C-160's K-341 single cylinder Kohler driving an equally sized 48" deck in heavy, wet grass. The V-twin might produce more gross HP, but it can't match the single cylinder's torque band - it takes a tremendous load to knock that single off it's power band in comparison. To add to the equation - the WH weighs almost 350lbs more than the JD as well.

 

The standards for HP ratings on small engines have a large range due to compression ratio, valve sizing, and rotating mass. Without the manufacturer giving full hp and torque curves, it's all a guess. To add to the confusion, efficiency in how the power is transmitted to a given implement can be another really huge factor. There are some examples out there of "magic" combinations that are known to work very well - the Kohler big block C-series is at the top of that list. The 520/Onan and the Kohler-equipped D series are also very powerful - but all have their drawbacks. Put a big block Kohler K on any side hill too long - boom. Every one has at least one weak link in the chain, some just show it worse than others. As far as failures, the D tops the list with that engine coupling to its hydraulic system - with the Onan's cooling/valve issues following a close second. It's the same thing with every brand, JD and Cub have had their historical failures to address, no different than WH, nor any better. We could argue over what's better or more desirable until the end of time, but it all comes down to preference and what you're willing to live with in shortcomings - every model has some sort of drawback, you pick your poison and live with it or address the issue.

 

Sarge

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Bert

Updating this thread, I purchased a low hour outdoor kept ugly 520 with 42 inch recycling deck. 

Even if I save this one (and I may) I’ll use it test fit the Onan and see how it’ll fit. :D

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