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ebinmaine

Late 60s up to mid 70s frame length question

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ebinmaine

I know I've touched on this before and I can't find the thread. So, thank you in advance for humoring me in my lack of ability to operate my phone.

 

What I'm trying to do is figure out which donor frames from what years and standard or automatic transmissions would be the right one to use for my 1974 c-160. I'd like to have a spare frame that I can clean up and paint and then start transferring parts from the one that I have.

 

If I remember correctly, the late 60s tractor and the B series up to 1975 were considered mid-length. C Series and later B series were considered long frame?

 

 

Edited by ebinmaine

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BOB ELLISON

Here is a list of short frame Wheel Horses.

1961 - 701

1962 - 502, 552, 702, Lawn Ranger

1963 - 603, 633, 653, 753, Lawn Ranger

1964 - 604, 654, 704, 754, 854, 1045, Lawn Ranger

1965 - 605, 655, 855, 875, 1075, 1055, Lawn Ranger

1966 - 606, 656, 856, 876, Lawn Ranger

1967 - 607, 657, 857, 867, Lawn Ranger

1968 - Commando 6, Commando 8, '500' SPECIAL, Lawn Ranger

1969 - WORKHORSE 700

Other tractors like the 1974 and 1975 model B-80 were considered a mid frame.

I believe the 76 and 77 B80 had the same frams as the c160

Edited by BOB ELLISON
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ebinmaine
29 minutes ago, BOB ELLISON said:

believe the 76 and 77 B80 had the same frams as the c160

See, now, that's what I thought too but the B80 frame and transmission I have in the shed that I got from @JimmyJam is an 8-speed which should make it a 1976 or 1977. But the frame on that tractor is nearly 3" shorter than the frame on my 1974 c-160.

 

Mystery deepens...

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BOB ELLISON

Ed then it must be 74-76 that has a mid frame. But the 77 has the same frame as the c160. The frame number is 103563 this file says the 1977  b60,b80,b100 ,c120 and c160 all use the same frame. You must have a 76 which is a mid frame and that's why it's 3" shorter.

And your right 74 and 75 had a 4 speed. And 76 and 77 had a 8 speed but he could have put a 8 speed on a 75 b80. Maybe someone will clear it up Is the 76 and 77 frame the lone frame. Or was 74-76 the same..??

 

 

 

Edited by BOB ELLISON

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ebinmaine
5 hours ago, BOB ELLISON said:

You must have a 76 which is a mid frame and that's why it's 3" shorter.

That's what Jim thought it was so that would make sense.

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JimmyJam

Yes the B-80 that Eric has from me was a 1976  8-speed. I ran it for many years until I got a princess of a 1974 B-80 4-speed. I then made the 76 a parts tractor. Same frame, known as a mid-frame. I just picked up a 77 C-160 (pictured) last weekend that I would like to restore with another long frame as well.

 

 

 

32293746_10209901690098925_8656726057916825600_n.jpg

Edited by JimmyJam
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Racinbob

Let me go through this again. The C-Series has a 45.5" WB. The 74-75 B-Series had a 43.5" WB. The 76-77 B-Series had a 45.5" WB and were identical to the C-series save for the following. Horsepower, low back seat vs high back, 13" steering wheel vs 15", 22.750 rear tires vs 23-8.50, headlights optional vs standard and a couple other minor things but you get the picture. Download the brochures and check the specs. I have a 1976 B-80 that I bought new and then converted it to a C-160. The only thing that didn't get converted is the steering wheel because I preferred the 13". Measuring the 74-75 B-Series as 3" shorter is probably because the overall length is about that with the smaller rear tires. The WB is axle to axle and they are 2" shorter. Again, the 76-77 B and C series share the exact same frame. In 1978 the B's became lawn tractors and were entirely different. :)

Edited by Racinbob
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ebinmaine
1 minute ago, Racinbob said:

Measuring the 74-75 B-Series as 3" shorter.....

 

..... the 76-77 B and C series share the exact same frame

 

Thanks Bob!!!

:handgestures-thumbupright:

 

So I was thinking correctly.

 

I'll double check the model number on the frame tractor that I have but I'm quite sure it thinks it's a 1976. :lol:

The difference in measurement that I took was from the front of the frame to where the frame attaches to the transmission on both tractors. Not on the wheelbase.

That's why I was confused.

This 1976 frame according to everything that I've seen should be the same as my c-160 but it clearly is not. Looks like somebody did a transplant at some point in the past!

 

No worries. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

 

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Racinbob

It can be confusing Eric. It could be a leftover 75 sold in 76 or more than likely parts have been changed over the years as you mentioned. We all know how the Ponds used up parts but I would be surprised if they put one out the door as a 76 when the specs were 75. I'd think somebody could get upset if they bought a 76 B-series knowing the specs stated 45.5" and it only had a 43.5" :)

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JimmyJam

Eric, 

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'll double check the model number on the frame tractor that I have but I'm quite sure it thinks it's a 1976.

:lol:

The difference in measurement that I took was from the front of the frame to where the frame attaches to the transmission on both tractors. Not on the wheelbase.

That's why I was confused.

This 1976 frame according to everything that I've seen should be the same as my c-160 but it clearly is not. Looks like somebody did a transplant at some point.

 

 

 

Eric. Yes please double check model # and serial #. I am thinking that that 76 B-80 could have been early manufacturing with leftover 75's. When I purchased the 1976 B-80 in Connecticut the original owner's son had possession of it. He said his dad bought it new. I spoke to the father and he said he bought it with hubcaps too, which were still on the tractor. Very rusty however!

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Racinbob

It would be very surprising if they bolted a medium frame to an 8-speed and sold it as a 76 but not so surprising at the same time. There are 4 model #'s for the 76 B-80, 8K801, 802, 803 and 804. If it's one of those and it can be confirmed that it left the Ireland Road factory with the shorter frame I think it would be pretty cool. Throw the 76 parts book out the door. :lol:

Edited by Racinbob
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ebinmaine
2 hours ago, Racinbob said:

There are 4 model #'s for the 76 B-80, 8K801, 802, 803 and 804

Thanks!

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JimmyJam

Interesting! 68' Electro 12, 73' No Name 12 Auto is same length.

Edited by JimmyJam

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JimmyJam

So 2 be clear we are measuring from tip of front of frame to back were tranny mounts. Correct?

 

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ebinmaine
2 minutes ago, JimmyJam said:

So 2 be clear we are measuring from tip of front of frame to back were tranny mounts. Correct?

 

Yes sir

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Racinbob

That would be frame length but not wheelbase. The wheelbase as specified in the brochures is center to center from the front axle to rear. The brochures don't give the frame length.

 

wheelbase.jpg.f2f18f5115d9b837f2ea92c5e7e810d5.jpg

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Racinbob

 

Another thing to remember is that putting an 8 speed on a 74-75 mid frame does not change the wheelbase. It's still a 43.5" mid frame.:)

Edited by Racinbob
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ebinmaine
1 hour ago, JimmyJam said:

So 2 be clear we are measuring from tip of front of frame to back were tranny mounts. Correct?

 

I'll take a pic or two tomorrow when I can to be sure we're measuring the same.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

 

Another thing to remember is that putting an 8 speed on a 74-75 mid frame does not change the wheelbase. It's still a 43.5" mid frame.:)

I was curious about that too.

So a 4 speed and an 8 are the same length.

 

I can't measure wheelbase in my case..... No wheels.

:lol:

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Racinbob
9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I was curious about that too.

So a 4 speed and an 8 are the same length.

 

 

Yes, the dimensions of the case are the same. :)

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squonk

Anything is possible during the "AMC" days My 76 C-160 isn't supposed to have a flip up fender but it does. :)

 

5aee212d92d91_mowc160003.JPG.491042ddb4ed453fa58dee0d64fbed76.jpg.64d715263d0c772f9066ffb0bdca86c0.jpg

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rjg854
9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:
10 hours ago, Racinbob said:

That would be frame length but not wheelbase. The wheelbase as specified in the brochures is center to center from the front axle to rear. The brochures don't give the frame length.

 

wheelbase.jpg.f2f18f5115d9b837f2ea92c5e7e810d5.jpg

I can't measure wheelbase in my case..... No wheels.

:lol:

 

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Racinbob
19 minutes ago, squonk said:

Anything is possible during the "AMC" days My 76 C-160 isn't supposed to have a flip up fender but it does. :)

 

Very true words. Shouldn't have a hood ornament either but let no parts go wasted. :D

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JimmyJam
11 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I can't measure wheelbase in my case..... No wheels.

:lol:

 

Me neither!!!! No wheels!  :lol:

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Chris G

I just measured my 76 b80. It is 45.5 from center to center and the frame is 37.5 from the back of the transmission plate to the front of the frame. 

1526740054371-2050759520.jpg

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ebinmaine
27 minutes ago, Chris G said:

I just measured my 76 b80. It is 45.5 from center to center and the frame is 37.5 from the back of the transmission plate to the front of the frame. 

1526740054371-2050759520.jpg

Thanks for checking that Chris. I'll measure mine sometime today.

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