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Skipper

A salute to the good old twin Kohlers

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Skipper

So in my initial investigating of Wheel Horse, trying to figure out what would suit me, I had a craving for the larger Kohler twin engines. But I often stumbled upon opinions and comments on the big Kohlers that went something like this:

 

Prone to failure!!

Will explode if your lawn is not 100% flat, due to bad lubrication.

Bad cooling, will loose compression on at least one cylinder.

Costly to repair.

Not long lived

Would prefer a single cylinder any day!

Etc. Etc.

 

Well, I know this is the nay sayers version, but still this is something I came across often, and it almost made me back out of my wish to have a big twin.

 

Luckily it did not, I took the chance, and have had the pleasure of a few of these wonderful engines. In fact I spend the last week rescuing a 417-A, that turned out to be quite the opposite story.

 

It was a hugely neglected non runner to start with. Rusty, like it had been sitting outside its entire life. Clutch was worn to bare metal. I pulled the tractor apart, and it was obvious it had been run to the ground, and then some. Highly creative wiring and a failed attempt to install an electric fuel pump, due to the OE pump having died, probably persuaded the PO JA ,to let it go. The rest of the tractor took some work and paint and patience, but it became decent. The thing of amazement was that Kohler KT17. It had newer been of the frame, that much was certain. It had no air filter, No cab over the points, Oil substitute was more brown gray than black. There was no spark, there was no side tins on the engine to guide the airfow. There was no screen on the flywheel. Most cooling ribs and the backside of the flywheel was densely filled with many years buildup of hard grass compost mud gunk. And the carb was jerry rigged to bypass the governor and run full throttle, and full of gunk, and leaking from rock hard gaskets. Oh and there was no fuel filter of cause, not that it matters in this picture anyway.

 

I was thinking this was a write off, and looked over to a line of repower options I have on the shelve. After all this had been running on something that may have been oil many years ago, and proper cooling was not in it's vocabulary. Then I got a bit crossed with the stupid doorknob that had treated it like that, and decided to give it a try. I took it a bit apart, flywheel and so, and gave it a go with the pressure washer. Next I tested the compression to see if there was meaning in doing more, and to my surprise, it had good and almost uniform compression. Had not seen that coming for sure, so I gave it new points, condenser, plugs, oil,  air filter, rebuild the carb and set it up with governor etc. Rewired the tractor completely, including the electric fuel pump.

 

You know what! It fired straight up, and now it purrs away with no bad sounds or anything.

 

This is where the Nay sayers will jump inn and say " Yes well we do not know how many hours was on it, and bla. bla. bla.". Well yes that is also true, and kind of part of the amazing story. The hour meter stopped working at some point in time, only God knows when..............At 2.137 hours.!!!! So yeah, we do not know how many hours is on it, but likely a bit more to be cautious.

 

I don't know about you all, but I think this is a statement on rugged reliability, under really the worst conditions I can imagine. 

 

My hat is off to Kohler for making these engines.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skipper
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953 nut

I just bought another Kohler Twin the other day, love the power and sound of the one on the 418-C. Will be doing a Kustom Job on a 953 and can't think of a better power plant than a twin.

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elcamino/wheelhorse

How about some pictures.

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R. L. Addison

In my opinion, that is saying a lot for the oil that had been run in the engine during it's lifetime. Do you know what it is?

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Skipper
34 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

How about some pictures.

 

Unfortunately I did not take any during this process, but I can grab a few of it now that its done and ready to go. Ain't a beauty queen though :-)

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Skipper
6 minutes ago, R. L. Addison said:

In my opinion, that is saying a lot for the oil that had been run in the engine during it's lifetime. Do you know what it is?

 

My thoughts also. No I have no idea what it was, but it looked like the stuff that comes out of an 8 speed tranny when they are worst. Im thinking that some decent guy had it long ago, and gave it some really good oil, and then it got sold to whom ever did this to it. My guess would be a really good full synthetic long life oil. That's pretty much the only thing I can see would still provide just a smear of protection in that condition.

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Skipper

20180419_110727.jpg.5ee8f98cc677a91e69c7684ca0a67008.jpg20180419_111000.jpg.64d8adb37c341e133a464c144f22c6b3.jpg20180419_110910.jpg.8a49c59c7f7320292566434e7c669319.jpg20180419_110826.jpg.c1bfb985ec74ae3db659dd0176a458d4.jpg20180419_110802.jpg.b74a34af6ebed5601dfcb9abb337e353.jpg

 

So as I said, much more of a working girl than a show queen :-), but compared to before touchup, this ain't so bad.

 

She runs strong and flawless now, and will get the job done for sure.

 

I'll fabricate some engine side covers to guide the airflow, put a sticker on the fender, and set her up with a tiller and a 48" deck. Then she should be ready for a new owner.

 

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peter lena

good recovery ! good job, its hard to think like someone that has no " operational experience " on even the most basic mechanical equipment. as a retired mechanical millwright, I have seen more " oil shearing " failures then I need , that probably makes me go after lubrication more than anything. its the old school inherent strength of this unit, that makes it a savable unit, its smart to take advantage of that. I would use a perforated  metal on that air ducting if possible , that would let the " blown air " act as a cleaner as well as a cooler, reducing the grass build up. knowing that you probably touched every neglected part of this unit says a lot about your thought and concern to save this tractor. if you grew up with this type of tractor , you know it can live as long as you want it to. good work , pete 

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GREYGHOST

I sure wish I had read this about a month ago, before I purchased my 417-A. It runs, it was abused, so in the process of clearing all of my Red Xs ln this girl. I pulled the points cover off to check since I had no spark on the front cyl after powerwashing. Thought it was moisture. Nope, dry but oily. Trimed plug wire and reinstalled in the coil. Cranked over and fired up, blowing lots of oil out of the bottom screw hole for points cover. Engine has a Knock at idle, diminishing with RPM increase. Drained oil and installed new Valoline High MaX blend. Stopped at my local small engine shop for tune up parts. When the owner saw what engine I'm working on. He said, Oh another Hand Gernade. When I asked him about it he said, yea this engine almost put Kohler out of business when the SERIES ONE came out. He said they fixed the problem in the Series Two. So I came home to see what series I have. Absolutely nothing marked on the ID Plate. 

SO MY QUESTION IS THIS. HOW DO I CONFIRM WHAT SERIES I HAVE ??? THANKS

WHEEL HORSE 417-A

Kohler 17HP

MOD KT17 QS

SPEC # 24363

S/N 15114031

 

Edited by GREYGHOST
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GREYGHOST

Skipper, that's a GoodLookin Horse. Thanks for the pictures.

Edited by GREYGHOST
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pfrederi

 any spec over 24300  Series 2 Full pressure oiling system.  Good engine...But even a good engine can be damaged by abuse, neglect or oaer use....

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Fordiesel69

Greyghost,

 

The 417-As to the best of my knowledge all had the series II.  The C-175 for example would have had the bad series one.  Others will confirm for sure.

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GREYGHOST

Thanks, PFREDERI, Looks like mine is one of the first series II engines. Now is there anyway to add an oil filter to her??

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pfrederi
42 minutes ago, GREYGHOST said:

Thanks, PFREDERI, Looks like mine is one of the first series II engines. Now is there anyway to add an oil filter to her??

Yes.  Other users specified oil filters.  Why WH did not is anybodies guess.  Look throughte Kohler engine parts website fo rKT17s.  look at spec #s for cub cadet or others  Some had filters.  That will show what parts you have to round up.

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bo dawg

I too have used the old KT series 1 on my C-175 and love it. My property is not flat at all and she keeps doing the job. Although I do wish I had the series 2 with oil filter and pump but oh well.

I would wonder now and be scared that treating your tractor correctly and new oil the old girl wont know how to act. Lol 

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BESTDOGEVER

As for oil filter it ends up behind belt guard making it a real pain to change if you regularly change the  oil the need for the filter is moot. Previous owners that abuse these tractors are everywhere my 518 was obviously well cared for by it' original owner but the 2nd one all but destroyed the Onan 

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19richie66

You can get a remote oil filter kit for these engines off ebay. They come up all the time. Some cubs had them also. There is a plate on the lower crankcase that you change out for one that will have the fittings for oil lines. Mount the filter adapter where you want and run new hoses. I have two sets but have yet been able to find the time to put them on. Here is a page from the service manual. It would be a good time to put one on before you install the tins, which you can also get from the auction site cheap. Good luck.

 

DDBAA436-7374-46F3-BC3E-8878B399CBBF.jpeg

Edited by 19richie66
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