scubaduderon 18 #1 Posted May 4, 2017 I am interested in an 86 417a I have seen listed. I am wondering how I should approach the seller. He has answered all my questions on the phone, and it seems like he is on the up and up, but I am cautious. How would you guys go about evaluating a used 417a? He claims it has in the low 500 hours range. Is there a way to test the transmission? He says the wheel chains broke one of the trans fan fins and he had it replaced. Should I be wary of this? How do I know if the engine is the correct one? From what I understand it is supposed to be a Kohler 14 hp series 2. How can I be sure that the engine is original engine or at least the correct replacement? I've read that at least one guy bought a WH and when he got it home found out that some of the things hanging off the engine (air filter, etc) were series 2, but the actual engine was a series 1! Are there other things to be wary of that I haven't mentioned that should be considered? Please help me out. The whole reason I want this unit is they are known for their rugged performance, and I just don't know how to go about this kind of evaluation. Plus now I get to hang out here and show pics etc! Thanks, Ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 23,796 #2 Posted May 4, 2017 Go to the "manuals" section and look for the "Tractor 1986 417-Series Wiring only.pdf" manual... Sorry - tried to post link but didn't work - One of the Mods may be along with the link... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 26,198 #3 Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, scubaduderon said: From what I understand it is supposed to be a Kohler 14 hp series 2. 417A should have a Kohler KT17 17hp engine. I'm not sure when Kohler made the change, but the series 2 of these is a much better engine than the series 1 is. The series 2 is easily identified by the existence of an oil filter. The series 1 does not have an oil filter. Edited May 4, 2017 by Achto 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,403 #4 Posted May 4, 2017 Not the authority on 417 Scuba Dude but I think it should have a Kohler 17 HP twin?? Other will be along to verify and you here. The transmission can be tested by chaining the tractor to an imovable object, owner allowing, and see if it digs in. Like Sylvan said get the manuals and study them so when you go to the look at you will know more about the tractor. If you have any suspicions take some (plenty) pics, again with owners permission, and bring them back here for the experts to eyeball. Pics of tractor & engine ID plates tells all. Biggest issue for me when going to look at a tractor of this type is how well was is taken care of and what might have been changed on it from it's orginal disposition. ( a nice way of asking if it's been hacked on). Question the seller on maintenance items done. Good luck with your potential buy. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,441 #5 Posted May 4, 2017 Garry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,315 #6 Posted May 4, 2017 By 1986, all the Kohler KT17s being produced were Series II engines. So, if it's the original engine, it's a Series II engine. And the others are correct, it should be a 17 hp twin. If it's not, then it's not the original engine to begin with. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,028 #7 Posted May 4, 2017 If the Spec number is greater than 24300 it is a Series 2. Not all series 2 had oil filters. Get it warmed up see if the hydro lift works smoothly then put it up against an immovable object and see if she will dig holes with the rear wheels. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #8 Posted May 4, 2017 The plot thickens! Details, details, deta.... There are so many rules and then so many exceptions while trying to gather all the info of the world of Wheel Horse! As soon as I think I know something or write it down someone points out that I need to get my erasure! Lord help the newcomer! Thanks goodness for this forum! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,315 #9 Posted May 4, 2017 There are some visual differences in the Series I versus Series II, but I would have to dig up some of info to point out the differences. They're subtle differences, but still yet, there are a few minor visual differences to help identify the two series apart. But, like I said, if it's an original engine, Kohler had redesigned the KT17 long before 1986, probably around 1981 or 1982. Unless Wheel Horse got hold of an old stock Series I and without heeding the Series I's reputation and went ahead and dropped it into a 417, then it will be a Series II. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPINJIM 1,972 #10 Posted May 4, 2017 My '86 417-8speed with a KT17 series II does not have an oil filter (has a port for one, but none installed); it may have been an option or a dealer installed item. Best way to tell is by the spec number on the engine ID plate as PFREDERI said. The manufacturer recommends that you start the engine WITHOUT the hydro trans engaged, especially necessary in cold weather. The Eaton hydraulics take 30 seconds to a minute or so to warm up before they will move the tractor or lift anything. Test it to see how long it takes. Check the color and smell of the hydraulic fluid My engine had a problem getting fuel to flow uphill from the gas tank under the seat, especially if the tractor has sat unused for awhile. I had to add an electric fuel pump near the gas tank to get good fuel pressure. Common problem, easily solved. Test the starting with the engine cold. The 417 is one of my favorite Horses. I love the sound and the smooth power curve of the Kohler two cylinders. Good luck, Jim 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,146 #11 Posted May 4, 2017 All good advice above. I only buy hydros for my worker tractors, and as jim @WHX11 says above. I also test the hydros by attaching them to a tree and make sure they will dig in forward and reverse. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shallowwatersailor 3,213 #12 Posted May 4, 2017 18 hours ago, Achto said: 417A should have a Kohler KT17 17hp engine. I'm not sure when Kohler made the change, but the series 2 of these is a much better engine than the series 1 is. The series 2 is easily identified by the existence of an oil filter. The series 1 does not have an oil filter. No, Series II engines do not have an oil filter. There was an aftermarket filter mount with hoses that mounted to the left side of the tractor between the engine and battery. It was not on the engine block. Another way to test the hydro is to put it against a curb and spin the tire(s). This assumes that the drive belt is in very good shape as well. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scubaduderon 18 #13 Posted May 5, 2017 Hey, thanks everyone for all your help. I'm gonna try to post a pic of it. Looks to be in very good shape and the owner did not hesitate when I suggested a pull test for the tranny. It is coming with the original 42" deck and snow blade. What do you guys think a fair price is for what you see? Thanks you, Ron 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,403 #14 Posted May 5, 2017 Only thing I can say is priceless Dude.....ugly seat aside I would go 900 in my area. ...more if my grass was getting long. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPINJIM 1,972 #15 Posted May 5, 2017 The 417 in your pictures looks to be in great condition. I paid $600 for my 417-8 speed with electric lift, and it wasn't in such good shape, and it didn't have a deck. Automatics with hydro lift bring more. I bought my 418 Automatic for $800 with a snow blade, weights, and 42" deck, but I was surprised when the seller accepted my low offer. I've noticed that spring time has been bringing higher prices on WHs, so I think that anywhere from $800 to $1000 would be fair considering the low hours. Offer him $800, but be very willing to go higher if everything checks out. Be sure to check the spindles on the deck, and ask why the deck is off of the tractor. You'll love the 417A. Good luck, Jim 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scubaduderon 18 #16 Posted May 8, 2017 Well, I bought her and successfully got her home! That was an adventure I'll relate later. She seems healthy too. Dug a couple of holes to test the trans. No problem. She starts up almost instantly from cold (low 50's) with just a tad of choke. The deck is very clean and the spindles are perfect because the deck was rarely used. He claimed maybe 5 or 6 uses. The fellow who originally owned the tractor used it mainly in the winter for pushing snow. He had a dedicated mower for his grass. The snow blade is in fair shape, but it is a little different than what I have seen online so far, One of the linkage parts seems home made. Maybe its looks different because of the hydraulic lift, I'm gonna have to research that. I'll put up some pics with my questions when I get settled into the new house. I'm gonna be asking lots more questions on how to get her back to tip top shape. I realize I'm gonna have to work on tightening up the linkages and what not. Also at least one of the hubcaps needs to be smoothed out and polished. Lots of little spots of rust starting to creep out too. I need to learn how to fix these rust spots and paint them. Also most of the decals have faded out, so It looks like about $90 for those. Is there a guide available here for guys who want to tune up the function or restore their 417-A's? If not their aught to be. The fellow I purchased her from is into Sears Suburban garden tractors from the 60's and 70's. Wow, are they nice! And talk about built like a tank! If any of you guys can help me get her back into tip top shape with tips on the linkages and other things I have mentioned I would really appreciate it! Thanks again for all your help so far. Hopefully I'll be able to return the favor one day! Smiling from gear to gear, Ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,936 #17 Posted May 8, 2017 Nice score. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #18 Posted May 8, 2017 Get yourself a Redsquare membership here to allow you to post ALL of those pictures of that beautiful tractor that we will require.... Garry already got you the owners manual and the IPL. When I get a new tractor, I grease all the grease points (see owners manual to get them all!), change all the fluids (check the OM for your engine, 10W-30 in the transmission, many here prefer mobile 1 full synthetic) change all the fuel lines and put in a new fuel filter, clean it up and run 'er. YOu will get more and more familiar the more you use it and always ask questions here, these people know what they are talking about! Also, check out Matt's Foot Pedal kit here. It will change the whole attitude of that tractor making it foot-controlled like the newer hydrostatics. All of the vendors listed in the vendor section have some pretty awesome offerings for our tractors! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPINJIM 1,972 #19 Posted May 8, 2017 12 hours ago, scubaduderon said: Well, I bought her Congratulations Ron, and thanks for letting us know the outcome. Very often we never find out the results of our discussions and advice. Enjoy your new Horse, and send pictures of your progress. Membership here is very worthwhile. Jim 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scubaduderon 18 #20 Posted May 9, 2017 O.K. I'm signing up for a years membership. If I coulda used a credit card I'd already be a member! Thank you guys, this is a great group! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,146 #21 Posted May 9, 2017 scubadu. Your name will look good in red. Now, bring on the pictures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,403 #22 Posted May 9, 2017 10 hours ago, scubaduderon said: Thank you guys, this is a great group! I'll second that! Glad we could help Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scubaduderon 18 #23 Posted May 10, 2017 I just found out that my wife has a paypal account, and am now an official member! Woo Hoo! Let the serious discussions begin! I've got a post about the care and feeding of my new horse. Please take a look and share the wisdom! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,403 #24 Posted May 11, 2017 Now we expect plenty of if you didn't know your Missus had a paypal act maybe she won't notice your tractor buying habits!?!!? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scubaduderon 18 #25 Posted May 11, 2017 Heck, she paid for my account! I'm one of the lucky ones! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites