additive in gas

[Brian1054 29]

1 minute ago, BOB ELLISON said:

I just read a few months back that the Government wants to up the gas to 15% ethanol.  And small engine manufacturer are  saying that will hurt the small engines to run on that much ethanol and it will destroy gaskets and seals and small engines. Way to go Uncle Sam . I am a Firm believer in sea foam . I buy it by the gal at auto store it's cheaper by the gallon. Works great on crud in gas system. 

Something I've wondered over the years.....ethanol is usually made from corn. If we have so much corn we can turn it into fuel, why do we still have so many people going hungry? Heard on the radio a while back that 1 in 4 people aren't getting enough to eat.

[Molon_Labe 731]

17 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Guess it can't hurt but remember we ain't turning the rpms either, another thing is the oil higher amounts of ZDDP the better especially with the flat tappet cams, check old car forums, Jeff.

Good point, I always add a few ounces of https://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/engine-break-in-oil-additive-tb-zinc-plus

to every oil change in every vehicle to boost the ZDDP levels.

[Lagersolut 613]

Royal Farm stores built a new store in Delta PA last year at the intersection of RT 74 and 851 - the pumps have an Ethanol free hose .

[6bg6ga 271]

The lead went out of gas in the late 70's. It was available but at select stations at least in my neck of the woods. The lead served to lubricate the valve guides and to slow down combustion.

Since the small engines are low compression ( most around 6:00-1 ) you don't need to worry about its effects on anti knock. I would also not worry about your valve seats either. Also, since these engines aren't turning 6000-6500 RPM  lesser octane gas is all you need.

 

With respect to the 15% alcohol that will effect the carbs as it will work on the alloy and start it flaking off and clogging jets. The other problem will be the gaskets that weren't designed for the alcohol. 

I'm going to pull the caution flag out for a little while here. Be sure you don't use any additives when you've just finished rebuilding /re-ringing an engine until the rings have seated. The result of using SOME of these additives is the rings either won't seat or it will take a very long time t seat.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

1 hour ago, 6bg6ga said:

The lead went out of gas in the late 70's. It was available but at select stations at least in my neck of the woods. The lead served to lubricate the valve guides and to slow down combustion.

Since the small engines are low compression ( most around 6:00-1 ) you don't need to worry about its effects on anti knock. I would also not worry about your valve seats either. Also, since these engines aren't turning 6000-6500 RPM  lesser octane gas is all you need.

 

With respect to the 15% alcohol that will effect the carbs as it will work on the alloy and start it flaking off and clogging jets. The other problem will be the gaskets that weren't designed for the alcohol. 

I'm going to pull the caution flag out for a little while here. Be sure you don't use any additives when you've just finished rebuilding /re-ringing an engine until the rings have seated. The result of using SOME of these additives is the rings either won't seat or it will take a very long time t seat.

When I built the SBC in my Malibu the only additive I used was in the oil (Risolone) to help with cam lobe break-in, 93 octane mixed with 110 octane racing fuel but my engine is 10.3-1CR  iron headed solid roller forged flat tops and 'moly rings with a top RPM of 8500 and geared to spin at 3-3500 at 55-60 mph,  if one built this without the hardened valve seats then yes you would need the lead substitute, but our little single and twins at 6-8.1 CR I don't think it's as harsh, Jeff

[WHX?? 46,728]

That mill looks like it = lots of $$ Jeffrey!

[ACman 7,505]

11 hours ago, WHX11 said:

One does have to wonder if this might contribute to valve issues in the Onan's?? 

 

 

I'm sure heat has more to do with this problem , as it is the valve seat that comes loose...if my thinking is correct ?

 

@WVHillbilly520H adding that zinc or using a break in oil is the way to go to properly break in a engine  ! I know this is a forum for wheel horse tractors but you should definitely do a thread on your Malibu . Are you also holding out on use...couldn't believe my eyes when I seen that Hugger Orange 69 Camaro sitting behind your beautiful engine .

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

@WHX11, oh a lil bit north of $6k in parts and machining, all the hard labor done by me so if she blows it's all my fault I  guess tackling an Onan after that would be a cake walk  @ACman, believe it or not after 4 years I've only put 20-25 miles on that beast, between work, kids, elderly parents and life in general really haven't had the time to fully tune and finish it up, and the Camaro is my buddy's where I put the engine together, oh and I know we like the burnout emoji so how about a pic of testing then we shall get back on topic , Jeff.

[6bg6ga 271]

I'm glad to hear there is someone that shares my interest in hot cars. I built a LT4 for my 93Z28 Camaro which had a 10.7  compression and I was running a D1R procharger supercharger. I made 18lbs of intercooled boost and the one time I got to run it at the strip netted me a 10.12@138mph.

 

As mighty as the Onan is it still will run 3 or 4 lifetimes on the gas we have today without any fear of valve guide wear or any problems associated with the lack of leaded gas. The regular as we knew it back in the late 60's and 70's didn't have much if any lead in the gas. Premium however was leaded which not only helped with the octane rating but as I mentioned before lubes the valve guides and promoted a longer burn time.

Any octane booster if used in an Onan is nothing but a waste of good money because to be very blunt here its not needed. A little upper cylinder lube however in my opinion is good for any engine if used in moderation. Since the gas tanks are so small very little is to be used and yes any oil in the gas will make them smoke just a little.

Edited April 14, 2017 by 6bg6ga
spelling error

[Digger 66 3,476]

JMO but the only thing I put in my gastank(s) anymore is GAS .

Everything I own that runs on gas , gets non-E , except the Flex-Fuel pickup .

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Digger 66

[6bg6ga 271]

This might be a little off base but how does everyone clean their dirty and or rusted tanks?  Anyone remove their tanks drain them and put muriatic acid in them to get rid of the rust and rust particles? I would think this might need to be on the "Do" list in order to maintain a clean gas supply. 

[Digger 66 3,476]

1 hour ago, 6bg6ga said:

This might be a little off base but how does everyone clean their dirty and or rusted tanks?  Anyone remove their tanks drain them and put muriatic acid in them to get rid of the rust and rust particles? I would think this might need to be on the "Do" list in order to maintain a clean gas supply. 

 

It's been a long time since I had anything with a steel tank but when I did I used to put sand / water baking soda in them and shake the he-- out of them .

Be sure to flush and dry thoroughly before using .We used to use BB's too.

When you're done theres a great product I have used called "kreem" that coats & seals the inside of "steelies" .

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Digger 66

[6bg6ga 271]

I may be mistaken but I believe only premium had lead in it and regular didn't. If it did it was in a very small amount. Premium has had lead in it from about 1929 and the reason was to lubricate valve guides and to aid in combustion in high compression engines. It slowed down the ignition of the gas allowing a more controlled event.  A quick check on gas pumps has the lead  metal tag on the premium pumps that was riveted on the side.  In my neck of the woods they referred  to regular as tractor gas. I've never seen any indication of ANY valve seat damage as a result of not having "hardened seats" and not having used a lead additive in the gas. I believe that is a common misconception. In my memory the valve guides are the ones that suffered damage not the seats.

10 hours ago, Digger 66 said:

JMO but the only thing I put in my gastank(s) anymore is GAS .

Everything I own that runs on gas , gets non-E , except the Flex-Fuel pickup .

 

Quote

Yup, the small engines and every engine made before the onset of the 10% E gas needs to stay with non e gas.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by 6bg6ga
content

[953 nut 51,627]

2 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

Premium has had lead in it from about 1929

This is the story on leaded gas;

 

[Tankman 3,515]

Seafoam is excellent but $$$.

I use Seafoam once in a great while.

Berrymans I use in my gas cans almost always.

Grandsons like to watch small aircraft. Local airports have 100 Octane LL (low lead) 100% Non Ethanol gas. We fill a can or two now and then.