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69-Raider-10

Need some Assistance / Advice on my K301 47147B

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69-Raider-10

Can't sleep I'm so bummed. My Raider 12 I recently picked up decided to park itself in my side yard and I can't figure out what in tarnation is going on with it. She was running better than ever the day before. I had changed the oil, the plug, cleaned out the carb, set the throttle tighter with less play, cleaned the fins, sprayed DE-OX on the rusted electrical connections, tightened or replaced poor connectors showing bare wire, cleaned the grounds, and adjusted the high and low on the carb. Running beautifully after that. I was out toyin around with the cart picking up sticks and rocks, etc. for a couple hours, no problems whatsoever. Parked for the night and tarped her until I could make room in the shed. Came out the next day and went to fire her up and it just cranked and cranked. Didn't so much as hint that it wanted to turn over. Popped the cap and gas is fine, pulled the hose off the carb, cranked it and watched gas spurt out with no problem, took the plug out / grounded it / turned it over and watched it spark! So now I have two of the 3 majors checked off. I leave the plug out and put my hand over the hole and turn it, seems to have plenty of compression even with the ACR. Sounds no different than it did the day before either. 

I do some research and decide it must be the points or condenser. Went and picked them up yesterday and installed them, nothing. Granted, I didn't set the gap to .020, or time the ignition. Could that keep it from not starting though? I would think it would just run rough? I'm seriously bumming over this. I've been researching all day and everything I'm reading is not something I want to get involved in. I don't have the time or the space to toss this on the bench and tear her down to look for a piled up shaft, or an ever so slightly bent rod, etc.. I still have the K181 sitting on the bench just to get cleaned and new gaskets seals. That's been there for 3 weeks! (Ok, so I decided to paint it while its out, sue me). :D

 

Seriously though, I need some pointers or some tough love. If I need to toss the motor on the dreaded future project bench and hunt down another one, I'll go do it I tell ya!

 

Oh, two more quick things: The condenser that was on it had a lug with a screw. Attached to the screw was a wire from the magneto I'm guessing. Can't see what else it could have went to? And then a jumper from the lug to the points. The new condenser the guy from the shop gave me had a sealed lead with no lug. Does that sound right? I ended up hooking both to the point terminal. Could that be a problem?

Finally, I was looking at my serial number (C070342) and comparing it to the manual's Engine ID sheet. It says a C denotes a 1967 but all other indications are pointing to it being a 68' Raider 12? What gives?

 

Thanks in advance!

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gwest_ca

A 1968 model tractor could have been sold in October of 1967 just like autos today. Engines are always built before the tractor so perfectly normal.

 

Try a new spark plug. If it works great. If it doesn't work remove and save for the next time you want to try a new plug. Spark plugs can fire out of the engine but when under the pressure of compression will not fire.

 

The condenser connects to the points or to a wire leading to the points. The metal body of the condenser needs to be grounded to the chassis which is accomplished by the clamp and bolt securing it.

 

Point gap is critical because that also controls the spark timing. New points have a coating on them to prevent the contacts from oxidizing in storage. Give them a rub with a nail file and then drag a strip of white paper through them until it comes out clean or spray with a contact cleaner.

 

Magneto ignition is self powered and the ignition wire simply grounds the points to the chassis to shut it off. See if you can disconnect the wire and isolate it in case the ignition switch is keeping it shorted to ground. Do not allow any battery voltage into the ignition wire as that will burn up the coil.

 

Garry

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953 nut

Garry has given you great advice. If you want to go the next step and time your ignition here is a guide.

Kohler static_timing.pdf58e6297cbb462_Kohlerstatictiming.JPG.0b8ca5c2c08ef259d4392c14869dc8ae.JPG

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69-Raider-10
5 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

A 1968 model tractor could have been sold in October of 1967 just like autos today. Engines are always built before the tractor so perfectly normal.

 

Try a new spark plug. If it works great. If it doesn't work remove and save for the next time you want to try a new plug. Spark plugs can fire out of the engine but when under the pressure of compression will not fire.

 

The condenser connects to the points or to a wire leading to the points. The metal body of the condenser needs to be grounded to the chassis which is accomplished by the clamp and bolt securing it.

 

Point gap is critical because that also controls the spark timing. New points have a coating on them to prevent the contacts from oxidizing in storage. Give them a rub with a nail file and then drag a strip of white paper through them until it comes out clean or spray with a contact cleaner.

 

Magneto ignition is self powered and the ignition wire simply grounds the points to the chassis to shut it off. See if you can disconnect the wire and isolate it in case the ignition switch is keeping it shorted to ground. Do not allow any battery voltage into the ignition wire as that will burn up the coil.

 

Garry

 

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

Garry has given you great advice. If you want to go the next step and time your ignition here is a guide.

Kohler static_timing.pdf58e6297cbb462_Kohlerstatictiming.JPG.0b8ca5c2c08ef259d4392c14869dc8ae.JPG

Excellent info. Thanks to the both of you. As soon as the weather breaks I'll get out there and use both of these and report back. 

 

Garry,

Is there a reason I only have .23 mb of image space left to post? I had wanted to show an example of the condenser / points wiring but can't upload anything with that little space?

 

Thanks again fellas!

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69-Raider-10

Nut,

When you say most engines still run rough properly gapped to spec (I'm paraphrasing), am I to assume each engine will vary ever so slightly one way or the other, and I should keep adjusting until the engine runs smoothly? Could it take several tries before this happens? 

 

Thanks again!

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Achto
1 hour ago, 69-Raider-10 said:

Garry,

Is there a reason I only have .23 mb of image space left to post?

Time to become a supporter. This will cure your photo issues in the future.

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bo dawg
2 hours ago, 69-Raider-10 said:

 

Excellent info. Thanks to the both of you. As soon as the weather breaks I'll get out there and use both of these and report back. 

 

Garry,

Is there a reason I only have .23 mb of image space left to post? I had wanted to show an example of the condenser / points wiring but can't upload anything with that little space?

 

Thanks again fellas!

 

Re-size the picture through editing and it will load up.

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953 nut
3 hours ago, 69-Raider-10 said:

Nut,

When you say most engines still run rough properly gapped to spec (I'm paraphrasing), am I to assume each engine will vary ever so slightly one way or the other, and I should keep adjusting until the engine runs smoothly? Could it take several tries before this happens? 

 

Thanks again!

The PDF you are referring to was copied from another post a few years ago. I was so impressed with the results on one of mine that I saved it and have shared it with lots of people. I have had occasions where it was perfect the first try and had one where I had to go back a second time, but when you hit the mark and recheck and verify it is on the mark it is amazing how much better they start and run. Some folks say they run better at .017 and quite frankly I have never checked the final points gap after setting the timing. 

If you are an old gear-head like me you will remember how great it was when GM came out with points that could be set with the engine running rather than doing a Dwell Angle check and then probably having to go back in to tweak the points. This method is sort of like that as compared to just setting the gap.

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pfrederi
1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

The PDF you are referring to was copied from another post a few years ago. I was so impressed with the results on one of mine that I saved it and have shared it with lots of people. I have had occasions where it was perfect the first try and had one where I had to go back a second time, but when you hit the mark and recheck and verify it is on the mark it is amazing how much better they start and run. Some folks say they run better at .017 and quite frankly I have never checked the final points gap after setting the timing. 

If you are an old gear-head like me you will remember how great it was when GM came out with points that could be set with the engine running rather than doing a Dwell Angle check and then probably having to go back in to tweak the points. This method is sort of like that as compared to just setting the gap.

 

 

I still have the flex shaft driver with  the hex head that did the adjusting

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953 nut
59 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

I still have the flex shaft driver with  the hex head that did the adjusting

So do I,  converted my Street Rod to HEI about ten years ago but won't part with my vintage tools.

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69-Raider-10

*Update*

 

Well, thanks to Garry and Nut, the Raider 12 is back up and humming again! 

I won't go into every detail because it would take awhile, but here are the highlights starting from when I created this thread:

- Purchased points and condenser

- Installed both but did nothing to the gap or timing. Did not start.

- Noticed the condenser was different (Had sealed lead. Old one had lug)

- Looked closer at the dash wiring, hack job. Rewired the panel with correct gauge wire and connectors.

 - Read replies to this thread and started on gapping and timing.

 - Gapped Points to.020

 - cleaned and marked

S & T on flywheel

- metered points per pdf Nut supplied, and used Garry's advice on several other things. 

- The points were SO FAR out of whack it was crazy. They were Gapped around twice the required distance. 

- Timed the ignition which was obviously way outo as well.

- Swapped plugs and reinstalled old condenser with better wiring.

 - Left ignition wire hang (M) and fired her up! 

 

Seems like shes missing a tad so I'm gonna adjust the 

Timing and carb again tomorrow.

Also going to wire in, new lights, engine hour meter,

Satellite radio, speakers, and 12v accessory power supply. Can't wait! :greetings-clappingyellow: 

Thanks again all.

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953 nut
5 hours ago, 69-Raider-10 said:

thanks to Garry and Nut, the Raider 12 is back up and humming again!

:woohoo:

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gwest_ca

I often had a skip in many of my engines and found Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel would eliminate it. I think it keeps the valve stems lubricated so the valves close every time. They say lead was added to the fuel for lubrication and now that it is eliminated from the fuel it makes sense that it is still required for these old engines. The valve springs are not very strong.

 

Garry

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