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rexman72

Belt on loader pump

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rexman72

Last storm I smelled something burning and it was my loader pump  belt and it broke clean apart.SO I replaced it today and tried it out and sure enough it was so hot the belt started smoking again.Now the belt I have is a little loose.Any ideas of what can all of a sudden be going on.Maybe the Wrong belt I am using.

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fast88pu

Pump starting to go?   Too thick of oil? 

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rexman72

Pump is brand new and oil is what is recommend  by pump man.Its been really cold here though the past few times I have run the loader.

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Adams94

Were you letting it run to warm up oils before starting to work it?

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fast88pu

Possible moisture in the oil? 

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pfrederi

What model tractor are we dealing with.  The Pump belt on a D series runs perilously close to the Rear PTO pulley. I t cold be rubbing on it.  Did the pump turn freely by hand while the belt was off?  Can you turn it with the belt fairly easily if the PTO is disengaged???

Edited by pfrederi
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rexman72

Its the D200  and pump runs freely.Its a homemade loader and everything turns freely.

 

13 hours ago, Adams94 said:

Were you letting it run to warm up oils before starting to work it?

actuallu i am not letting it warm up.I am turning it on and going.

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pfrederi

Did it used to work OK???..  Are we sure the bypass is working OK when the cylinders are at full extension?  

 

 

A loose belt will slip and heat up

Edited by pfrederi
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Adams94
19 minutes ago, rexman72 said:

Its the D200  and pump runs freely.Its a homemade loader and everything turns freely.

 

actuallu i am not letting it warm up.I am turning it on and going.

Was just thinking if the oil was really cold it does not flow as easy and under perfect circumstances it may cause belt to slip?

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rexman72
4 hours ago, Adams94 said:

Was just thinking if the oil was really cold it does not flow as easy and under perfect circumstances it may cause belt to slip?

it just started doing this last storm when i was really cold and the oil was cold.I am going to try a smaller belt

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pfrederi

The arc loaders call for 10w-30 motor oil what are you running??? 

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JoeM

If you have one, tee in a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the valve unit. Might tell a story.

On the loader I have, the applied horse power to operate the pump is not all that much.

I use Dextron III ATF in the loaders I built and have had great results, hot and cold.

At 32 degrees dynamic viscosity of ATF is around 220, 10w40 oil would be 740.

 

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wallfish
2 hours ago, rexman72 said:

it just started doing this last storm when i was really cold and the oil was cold

actuallu i am not letting it warm up.I am turning it on and going.

Believe you may have answered your own question. BUT, has it been fine in prior years and previous cold spells doing this?

I'm no expert but my guess is that pump has got to be working extra overtime just moving the oil when it's very cold, let alone adding the pressure of working it that cold.

OILUJ52 makes a good point about the oil viscosity. What is in there for oil? Could the pulley on the pump be too small?

 

7 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Did it used to work OK???..  Are we sure the bypass is working OK when the cylinders are at full extension?  

Another good question

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squonk

Cold oil will make everything work harder. I have a home-made loader on my Power King. When it's super cold, I let the engine run a bit turning the pump. Still everything works slow and the belt slips. A lot depends on your pump size and pulley size. I run std. R & O hyd. oil and a 5" pump pulley and a .5 cu. in. pump. If I had it to do over again, I'd run a 6" pulley and maybe a lighter oil like snow plow oil for example. My loader is primarily for snow removal so it never gets super hot and worked hard in the summer. I put 2 magnetic engine heaters on the tank with timers to help things out. 

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wallfish

Mike from Waterloo has a pretty good idea there! A tank heater will allow you to start and go when used for very cold temps.

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rexman72

Yes it ran fine until we got a real bad cold weather.I have a 6 inch pulley and replaced the belt thats a little shorter.I will try this out today when i get home.

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rexman72

tried a new belt that was smaller which is a Dayton A42 belt and the pto got so hot it stretched the belt out like I have never seen before.

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pfrederi

Have you tried adjusting the tension on your belt???  My Cessna pump on my D200 Arc loader is only a 5" pulley

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rexman72

I did tighten the belt.Should is get a thicker belt.Its  a homemade loader on my D 200.After 20 minutes tonight it started smoking and stretched and then broke

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MalMac

Start your tractor, engage your PTO. Don't move or operate any of your levers. Wait and see if your belt starts to get hot. Try and notice if the pump makes any sounds or Boggs down the motor without moving any of the hydraulics. If it does chances are a bearing is going bad in the pump. If it runs fine then move your hydraulics. Try and notice if motor gets bogged down. If it does then you have got some resistance somewhere. Do you have quick couples? If so check the plunger valves in them. They have been known to break/stick shut. Then are you having a hose collapsing internally? They can restrict or cut off fluid flow causing pumps to become extremely hard to rotate thus causing the belt to get hot. If the pump is having a significant resistance against it that could also mean that the bypass is not working. 

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R. L. Addison

You mentioned a new pump. If internal clearances go to negative (with use & getting warmer as it runs) this could be disastrous also (factory defect).

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rexman72
11 hours ago, MalMac said:

Start your tractor, engage your PTO. Don't move or operate any of your levers. Wait and see if your belt starts to get hot. Try and notice if the pump makes any sounds or Boggs down the motor without moving any of the hydraulics. If it does chances are a bearing is going bad in the pump. If it runs fine then move your hydraulics. Try and notice if motor gets bogged down. If it does then you have got some resistance somewhere. Do you have quick couples? If so check the plunger valves in them. They have been known to break/stick shut. Then are you having a hose collapsing internally? They can restrict or cut off fluid flow causing pumps to become extremely hard to rotate thus causing the belt to get hot. If the pump is having a significant resistance against it that could also mean that the bypass is not working. 

I will start the tractor and let it run for 10 minutes or so and see what happens.The pump was bought in oct and was working right before the last two storms.Would water getting into the tank also cause this?If so is there an additive i can out in the tank?

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MalMac

Yes, water can get in there and freeze causing all kinds of problems. Unless the reservoir was open to the elements I am not sure how water would get in there though.

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rexman72
7 hours ago, MalMac said:

Yes, water can get in there and freeze causing all kinds of problems. Unless the reservoir was open to the elements I am not sure how water would get in there though.

I ran the tractor for 20 minutes standing still and everything was good.then I took it out to move snow ans it started smoking under a load.I shut the tractor off and the pump seems to be turning hard and its a brand new pump.I looked in the hydraulic tank and I see bubbles and white stuff on top of the hydraulic oil.

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953 nut

Water in a hydraulic system will flash to steam and produce heat when pressurized. Your pump is the low point in the system and oil floats on water; could be the problem.

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