Agage1 83 #26 Posted October 15, 2016 The problem is these days that I think a lot of the name brand stuff is now made in China but still carries the same price tag. So why not buy from someone like harbor freight? I just bought a brand new rolair compressor with a honda on it and the motor is identical to a harbor freight 301cc that goes for under $150. I've looked inside both and they are pretty much carbon copies of each other. Don't know if it's true or not but a friend told me Honda is subbing a lot of stuff out to China now. Maybe I got a lemon but as of right now I'd take my predator over my new Honda. My old Hondas are a different story, clearly better machines hands down. I still run a hand me down honda generator from the late 70's 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #27 Posted October 15, 2016 I no longer know what was made where! I've been told that some Kohlers are now made in China. Now for some reasons it might be worth something to buy a Kohler branded "made in China" engine rather than an off brand but my overall point is that you need to be careful now days when you try to "Buy American". Your brand name might be the same as a "made in China" brand! And yes I know that "made in China" is different than "made in China with US oversight", so I suppose I am saying that "made in" has gotten far more complicated that just adding a "country of origin"! And like the once "Made in Japan" meant junk and the once "Made in the USA" meant guaranteed quality... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAinVA 4,619 #28 Posted October 16, 2016 There actually is a standard for qualifying for the made in USA label.I could be wrong but most of the parts could come from foreign countries as long as the final assembly takes place in the US.In 1990 my wife bought a Ford Crown Victoria.This was a big American four door sedan.It wasn't long before we found out that it was considered a foreign car as the percentage of parts in it from Mexico and Canada would not allow it to be classified as American.Just saying,Luck,JAinVA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #29 Posted October 16, 2016 8 minutes ago, JAinVA said: There actually is a standard for qualifying for the made in USA label.I could be wrong but most of the parts could come from foreign countries as long as the final assembly takes place in the US.In 1990 my wife bought a Ford Crown Victoria.This was a big American four door sedan.It wasn't long before we found out that it was considered a foreign car as the percentage of parts in it from Mexico and Canada would not allow it to be classified as American.Just saying,Luck,JAinVA I owned and operated an autobody shop in the 80s and many of my American sheet metal parts came from Canada and Mexico! Back in the 1980s! I'm sure it is more widespread now! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slammer302 2,154 #30 Posted October 16, 2016 I did sum reading and I found that sum Kawasaki small engines are assembled in the US. I know it's not the same as made in the US. But if I was going to buy a big twin would probably still go predator. After test driving Bowtieguy's C-175 with the the predator 22hp don't think you can go wrong. It also has the external oil cooler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #31 Posted October 16, 2016 10 hours ago, slammer302 said: I did sum reading and I found that sum Kawasaki small engines are assembled in the US. I know it's not the same as made in the US. But if I was going to buy a big twin would probably still go predator. After test driving Bowtieguy's C-175 with the the predator 22hp don't think you can go wrong. It also has the external oil cooler. "Assembled" means at least the components could be inspected, measured and torqued. Certainly increases the possibility of quality control! "external oil cooler"? Wow! I'm still concerned about parts? If breathers are hard to get what about everything else? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
82Caddy 851 #32 Posted October 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, DennisThornton said: "$external oil cooler"? Wow! I'm still concerned about parts? If breathers are hard to get what about everything else? The twins have decent sized oil coolers. They're really easy to swap out to a larger one since they have a threaded side into the block and a barb fitting in the other for hoses. I've looked at swapping mine out to a bigger one but haven't felt the need yet. Most Honda internals swap into predator blocks. Stock for stock parts. I have a 13hp predator that is now closer to 18hp based on what others with the same parts have done on the dyno. It's on a long tail mud motor on a 16ft aluminum boat. It'll run 13-14mph on the water loaded with gear and three people. That thing gets run wide open, idle or off. Only problem I've had is when I forgot to bring extra fuel with... If you want to make some power with a predator engine get on some gocart or mud motor forums. Guys are doing some ridiculous things and doing it reliably for lots of hours. Not single cylinder kohler hours (not stock at least) but for the money they're hard to beat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #33 Posted October 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, 82Caddy said: Most Honda internals swap into predator blocks. Stock for stock parts. That is very good to know! So they are Honda clones! I'd heard that but if parts interchange then I guess that confirms it. Of course that doesn't mean they are of the same quality but if they are holding up and even being used in "performance required" arenas then that issue seems mute! I will be less hesitant if I need a new engine, or come across a recent year used one. I'm still hesitant about the early arrivals. I gather they did have some issues but still a very enticing price. Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
82Caddy 851 #34 Posted October 16, 2016 Predators are exactly that, Honda clones. Everything I have owned/used for predators have been in the 2015 production year so I can't comment on anything made before that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slammer302 2,154 #35 Posted October 16, 2016 I did a little more investigating and here's what I found the Honda and Lifan are the same but the predator is different but only the internals are different crank,cam,rod,piston but the carbs and such are direct bolt on's with Honda and you can buy replacement parts stock or aftermarket but you usually have to go through the mini bike or carting sites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #36 Posted October 16, 2016 5 hours ago, slammer302 said: I did a little more investigating and here's what I found the Honda and Lifan are the same but the predator is different but only the internals are different crank,cam,rod,piston but the carbs and such are direct bolt on's with Honda and you can buy replacement parts stock or aftermarket but you usually have to go through the mini bike or carting sites. That sounds complicated! We sell Lifan gensets and I hadn't heard that. Not doubting it, just didn't know! So ALL the parts interchange for Honda/Lifan? And only the hang on/bolt on the outside parts interchange among all three? Wonder what and why Predator internals are different? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slammer302 2,154 #37 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) On the small engines the Honda is 196cc and the predator is 212cc so the bore and stroke are different. HF used to sale the Greyhound engines witch were built by lifan. What I read was for sum reason HF switched to predator engines. Sum people say it was because HF was selling so many of the clone engines they were worried about legal actions so they switched to a engine that was more different. I would say it come down to the $ more than legal. Edited October 17, 2016 by slammer302 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shallowwatersailor 3,213 #38 Posted October 17, 2016 There are actually two different 6.5 hp Predator engines. The newer one has had the head redesigned and is now a "hemi" (desmodromic) design. The easy way to tell is the valve cover is cast instead of being stamped steel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
