953 trans help!

[dells68 7,494]

I've been looking at stevesaurus's rebuild thread and I think my trans gears are definitely out of whack.  Please look at the shift forks, reverse idler, and gears and help me figure out what is not quite right.  Right now the reverse idler is locking the transmission up.  Any help is much appreciated!!!!

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,125]

Looks like your shift forks need to be put in the neutral position.    If I see things right, the shift forks in their current position will lock things up.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I think that Terry is on to something.  It does look like you are in 2 gears at the same time.  You have the bevel gear differential, and I have not been into one of these, but they work the same as all the other Wheel Horse transmissions.  I think you should see a notch on each of the shift rails above the casting and form the square with the shift forks to be in neutral  (ask if you do not understand this).  Then put one of the shift rails up or down at a time an turn the input shaft to see if the gears are doing what they are supposed to do.  Do this with both shift rails to make sure you have this together right.  From what I can see from your pictures...you have it together right.  Move the shift forks, one at a time, to find the center notch and that would be neutral.  Let us know. 

 

[Racinbob 10,256]

While you have it apart it wouldn't be a bad idea to find some later shift rails that have the deeper neutral detent and use a 3/4" stop pin rather than the 11/16". The parts shouldn't be hard to find and you could even make the stop pin. The spring and balls are the same. That will virtually eliminate the possibility of it jamming in two gears.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Just for kicks, can you take a picture of the other end of your reverse idler??    I'm thinking you might have that gear upside down.

[dells68 7,494]

4 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Just for kicks, can you take a picture of the other end of your reverse idler??    I'm thinking you might have that gear upside down.

I was wondering about that myself.  It is machined back about 1/8" in comparison to the visible end.  Also the part of the diff that goes into the ball bearings in the case was damaged and repaired by the previous owner.  He added a piece to the diff to match the collar on the other side, but both sides are hitting on the shoulder that goes against the bearings in the case and preventing it from closing up by about the amount he added.  I think this shoulder may need to be removed or I may have to get another differential.  It had been used to pull boats at a marina in Florida and I bet he tried to pull too big of a boat and damaged that side of the differential.

[dells68 7,494]

I'm looking, but haven't found any pics yet.  Anyone have pics of the surface on each side of the differential or bull gear that fits up to the ball bearings in the side of the case?  I'm still thinking the po added too wide of a shoulder to the repaired side.

[Racinbob 10,256]

That shoulder on the reverse idler goes down or towards the right side. There's some good differential shots in this thread. It's a 10 pinion unit but where you're talking about wouldn't matter. 

 

 

[dells68 7,494]

Thanks Bob!  Found a pic of a differential that confirmed my suspicions-that shoulder is shorter on one side than the other, so I've got to remove about 5/8" of the shoulder he made and added to the dif to get my case to close up.  Below is a blow up I pulled from the thread you mentioned showing the difference in length from one side of the doc to the other.

[Racinbob 10,256]

Don't make the mod yet. I'm not familiar with the bevel gear differential but I know they take a left and right axle. They are different lengths. I'd be more comfortable if someone here could post a picture of a bevel gear case.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I think we need @racinfool40 ( Mike) to hop in here.  I know he has taken these apart and put them back together...I have not.  Mike may even have parts to replace the ones that are screwed up. 

 

I sent Mike a PM.  Might be a day or so for him to show up.  I can call him if you are in a great hurry.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Racinbob 10,256]

After posting that I was afraid I may have mislead Dells. I'm interested to see what Mike has to say.

[dells68 7,494]

Thanks guys, no hurry.  I've got to leave for a conference at Clemson tomorrow and won't be back to mess around until at least Tuesday afternoon.one axle definitely is longer.  I'll try to take a pic of the dif tonight to post when I get back out in cell range tomorrow.  I'm at home with my wife for a few minutes today.  She hit a deer about 11:00 last night leaving Dad's.  It busted her grille, radiator, trans cooler, headlight mounting panel, bent the hood and tweaked both fenders.  It's a 2010 journey that she just paid off and now I'm afraid it will get totaled out.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Sorry to hear all of that.  Hope she is OK.  I'll send you a PM with Mike phone # in case he did not get my PM.  Just tell him to come in and add to this thread...if he would.  We want to know what he has to say also. 

   Here is the manual...check out page 22...see if that helps.

492-4004.pdf (application/pdf Object)

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by stevasaurus

[racinfool40 202]

The 953-1054 bevel gear should have 2 different differential end plates like the pic posted of the 10 pinion differential...All the one I have tore down and rebuilt one end plate had threaded holes for the bolts...I wish I had pics to show you but my last Bevel gear differential went to Illinois a couple weeks ago. If you look at the 11/44 tooth gear or the gear that turns the differential you can see were tour needle bearing rides the look at the end of the differential end plate (red-rusty looking one) the spot were the 1533 ball bearing rides should be the same height....you need the correct end cap that has the threaded holes for your 4 differential bolts...Your axle should be different lengths also to make up the difference in the offset of the differential.

 

[dells68 7,494]

Hey guys I feel like Jethro just landed in Beverly Hills.  Check out the photo of the lobby of our hotel from the hall outside my room.  I just wish my family was with me!  Mike, check out the pics of my dif.  I think the PO flipped it upside down.  Can I remove his "repair?"  If I can where would I find the outter needle bearings for the axle and axle seals?  Part numbers?  If I can't repair his repair, what dif would fit and where might I find one?  Thanks for all of your help!  Time for Jethro to get back to the cement pond!!

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Hey Dells, was this transmission together and you took it apart, or did you get it apart in a bucket??   I.m wondering if it was together, why it will not go back together. 

[dells68 7,494]

12 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Hey Dells, was this transmission together and you took it apart, or did you get it apart in a bucket??   I.m wondering if it was together, why it will not go back together. 

Nope.  It was apart.  The guy said he had to weld the piece to the differential to "fix" it, but it lacked about 5/8" going back together.  Funny thing is that it wouldn't close by the same amount he added to the dif.  That's why I'm thinking it shouldn't have been added.  

[stevasaurus 22,229]

OK, so this guy added the piece to be the same as the other side??  I can't tell in the pictures, but did he slide what goes into the bearing race out also??  Then you need to grind off the welds and slide the piece that goes into the back and weld that...or get another half from Racinfool40.  Is that what is going on?? 

[dells68 7,494]

I haven't pulled it apart, but yes he added that to make both halves the same.  I'm hoping the piece that fits into the bearing race can be salvaged or I may have to get it repaired.  I afraid I'll have to find a different dif.  Mike just sent his last one off to someone.  I may have to find out what other difs would/could be used in this tranny.

[953 nut 51,409]

1 hour ago, dells68 said:

I may have to find out what other difs would/could be used in this tranny.

     The 953/1054 differentials are not interchangeable with any of the models that use 12" tires due to the gear ratio being different because of larger tires.

[dells68 7,494]

Well, no choice but to fix this one then!  No need to worry, we do what we have to to keep our horses alive don't we!

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Are you in a hurry??  It is worth waiting if you can't salvage what you have for the right piece to come along.  Try an ad in the "Want Ads" someone may have the piece.  I'm going to do some investigation...maybe I can figure something else out for you. 

[dells68 7,494]

Thanks so much guys!  I've never been part of a community that is full of so many helpful and genuinely kind folks.  Best thing I did was getting into !  I'm going to pull it apart this week to see what shape it is in inside and with the repair.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I'm confused.  Is this trans together or not?  Can you post some pictures from different angles of that differential??  Just for the heck of it, measure the distance (center to center & diagonally) the bolt pattern for the mounting bolts on that trans.  While a different differential will not fit in there, you may be able to replace the trans with another transmission.  I happen to have one (#5053) I have just rebuilt.  It may be an option. 

   Thanks for the kind words above...this really is a great site.