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RedsRider

Think I killed my Horse - Advice on reviving

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RedsRider

First post. Been lurking for a year.

 

So I caught the Wheel Horse bug last year when I bought a '90 520H. Had about 950 hours. Came with 42" deck and plow. Guy I bought it from was really decent and said that the rear cylinder was starting to lose compression. When tested it was lower than I liked but not horrible. As I recall right around 100 hot, maybe just below.  (Note to self: clean out fins after every use.) The guy also threw in a blown Onan 20 from another 520 swap he had done. I bought this with the full understanding that, sooner or later, I was going to be facing the dilemma I am now facing. Unfortunately, it is sooner.

 

I ran the tractor all summer, cutting a total of about 2.5 acres of ground every week or so. Was dutiful about clearing fins, but it was pretty dusty a couple times when I cut. Did service the breather once. Fell in love with that machine! Couldn't wait for a snowfall to push it around with the blade. In the mean time the guy I bought from had a 60" deck I had been eyeing when I picked up the tractor, and he offered it to me at a good price. Picked it up, installed it and used it for last cut of the season - a really dusty one, I might add. Ran like a dream! Deck was perfect and cut my time down considerably. I had a little slippage on PTO start up, but once moving, that deck screamed! After that last cut, I parked her in the equipment shed, put some stabilizer in the fuel, patted her nicely on the hood and wished her a good winter until the snows fell.

 

A few weeks later, I happened to be in the equipment shed and thought I would turn her over just to keep the carb clear. She started, but she was not happy about it. When I pulled her out, it was pretty clear she was only running on one cylinder. After a while I could feel the second one kick in. Hoping against hope, I changed the plugs, thinking one might have gone bad. Nope. So, because I didn't have time that day to fiddle further, I let her sit for a few more weeks. When I came back, I could not get her to start at all, until I took off the breather assembly, and then it was ragged. After a while she would not run at all. Upon inspection I realized that it looked like spurts of fuel were coming out of the top of the carb assembly. Cold compression was 95 on the front cylinder and 5, yes 5, on the back.    :no:

 

OK, so I've now gotten past denial stage and moved on to acceptance. I need to do something. I have lots of options. I am assuming that I have a valve problem on the engine currently in the tractor. May be something else, but, come on, its an Onan PG 220 and these are fairly classic symptoms... I think I just put it over the edge with that big deck. I probably could have babied it for another season with the smaller deck, but I had to save time!!! I don't really know what is wrong with the spare/part engine the guy threw in, but I am assuming the same thing. (Yes, I know what assuming does.)

 

So here is (are) the question(s): Do I take these Onans to someone (because the guts of an engine, outside of maybe repairing or replacing a carb, are beyond my current skills set) to try to patch together a workable engine from them? Do I just chuck it and do a complete swap with a new engine? (which I feel fairly confident I could accomplish on my own.) And if so what engine? Options - HondaGX690, a Vanguard of similar size, the HF Predator, and maybe a Kohler.

 

In giving your advice recognize a few things:

1. I HAVE the money to go all out on the replacement, but I am cheap as hell. The predator appeals to the second part of that. Have looked at the thread of the guy who did that replacement, so it looks simple enough, but wonder about the long term durability.

2. Similarly, I can probably afford whatever it would cost to combine engines, but, again, I am cheap as hell. I hate paying someone else to do work for me that I could do myself, or do the substitute of.  Also, I worry a bit about the long term logic of fixing a 25 year old engine with another 25 year old  engine. At the same time, I really loved the way that Onan roared.

3. I am fairly mechanically capable, but with limited knowledge or tools for progging around in the internal workings of an engine. Hook ups and problem solving for a retrofit should be no problem though.

4. Time is not a huge issue. I currently have a POS mower that does the job, but, sadly, is not a WH. I want to RIDE again, though....

 

Hit me with your best shot...

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roadapples

I`m sure the Onan guys will be here soon, in the meantime    :WRS:

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rmaynard

:WRS:

We have a member @boomers_influence who is the Onan guru. You might want to send him a PM. That might rattle his email and get a faster response.

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ACman

:text-welcomeconfetti::help: Is on its way. 

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WHX??

First off :WRS: glad to see you came out of the woods. :ychain:

 

As far as :deadhorse: the horse. I would suggest pulling off the back head to verify that it might be the dreaded valve seat issue. My 520 does the same thing upon start up, seems like it runs on on one jug for a minute then the other one kicks in. Colder out it is the worst it does it. Once it warms up it goes away and runs like a champ. I have been told to try cleaning the carb but have yet to do it.  I am a relative onan newbie myself so will be following this thread.

 

Bob has flagged  our resident onan parts guy so hopefully he will chime in along with other 520 owners.

 

I don't think the bigger deck had anything to do with your crisis. BTW how many hours are on it?

 

Try doing some searches here on 520H & onan here & see if there are other threads that can help you out.

 

lets find out what going on with it before we start talking about repowers.

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RedsRider

Has 975 hours now, (25 more than I bought it with) according to the meter. But I feel like the meter is not matching my use.

 

I could very well pull the head, because I know what bolts are required to do that, and I know what the head looks like. But then I would look in the cylinder and go, "yep, that's the inside of the cylinder." Unless the valve grabbed me by the throat and said, "I'm seating incorrectly!" I would have no clue what to look for.

 

My father was my mechanic and I was his carpenter. We were both better off that way. Unfortunately, he passed away earlier this month. :(

 

I can build pretty much anything, but it has to be with components that work, if that makes sense.

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Jparkes43

Hello. 

 

Sorry no help here but welcome to RS. You will have help here very soon. if you do take the head off post pictures and someone will know if its seated incorrectly.

(i have to say i had a giggle when i read 'Unless the valve grabbed me by the throat and said, "I'm seating incorrectly!"' i love that :) 

 

sorry to here about your dad though.

 

Yes that makes sense. 

 

James

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Ed Kennell

I would definitely pull the head.   If you see nothing obviously wrong with the valve, you really didn't  lose anything except a little time.  And the fact is "doing is learning".

If the valve seats look OK, check the clearances and lift.  Valve keepers have also been known to fail.

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boomers_influence

reds

remove the back ( # 2 cylinder ) head as others have stated.

rotate the engine ( by hand ) until the intake valve is wide open.

if the seat is BAD it will likely almost fall out.

thank you. boomer

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Phatboy

What the above guys said is the best advice,,, now a cpl of things,, as far as fixing it , Onans will last thousands of hours if maintained properly,,, see what happens os ppl blow out the shrowd but never take it off to make sure the shrowd is "grease" and debree free and clean,, also to include the engine,, cause if there is oil in and around there all the air pressure in the world wont clean ot out,, so like i did and the first time is a huge pain in the butt lol ,i took the shrowd off as soon as i got it home, others will tell you i wasnt having any fun lol with drain tube etc.. But i i removed and degreassed and cleaned the whole engine and shrowd ,, so that when you are done cutting and blowing it out any grass clippings will in fact blow out,, it is something you "Have " do do when you get a new 520,, so you start with a clean slate,,, now just my 2 cents ,, onan P220G is the best tractor motor ever made ,, as far as twin cylinders go except a yanmar 3 cyl diesel..so for me i get a brand new short block off ebay there is a guy who sells them brand new in the box and rebuilt in the box,, "short blocks" ,, i would get one drop her in use your intakes amd exaust etc...and start a new,,, easy to do ,, but thats just my personal opinion and :twocents-02cents: you are right there are many re-power options,, kohler command pro is also a great option ,, and is around $1900 bucks for the 22 hp version , but is all modern and supposed to be a good motor from what i have read,, and will be my choice if mine ever goes and i cant get a short block anymore,,if you do decide to go that route i hope this advice helps,, for me personally on a beautiful tractor like a 520 i would never pit a knock off cheap motor in it,,, 520's are one of the best garden tractors ever made IMO.. GODD LUCK !!

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608KEB

I saw a ad on CL. Rebuilt onans for sale. I think it was in the MI area.if your gonna drop a 1500-2000k in a motor. Maybe look for a 1 owner creampuff 520H. They are out there. You just have to be patient and  keep looking. I have to many 520H's 4 of the 5 were in really nice condition. Good luck!!

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BESTDOGEVER

That ad is in the Flint or mid Michigan C/L they are pretty pricey for rebuilt I think if you go replacement looking at kohler or Subaru would be just as cheap and be a more permanent fix

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can whlvr

I would throw a Honda in her and scrap that onan so fast ,I'm no fan of the onan,ive seen to many seat failures for my liking,we had them on riding power trowels,didnt last half as long as our kohler or Honda powered trowels,thats my opinion only

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RedsRider

So, I've not had the chance to pull the head yet, but I will and see what I see. I will post pics if it is not evident.

 

The other thought I had is that I can start by pulling apart the second engine. I fully agree with the poster that said doing is learning but I'd rather not screw up something in the process if I can avoid it. With the "spare" I really have nothing to lose. Sort of like doing an autopsy. No one ever gets sued for malpractice when you can't do any harm...

 

I appreciate everyone's comments.I am leaning towards a replacement with a new Honda or Kohler, and it was very tempting to buy the Predator when it was on sale for less than $600 this weekend! But since I have some time, I am going to dig into these engines a bit first. At the very least there may be a couple of blown Onans available at significant discount for for you fans.

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ericj

i can get an onan valve seat fixed at a local napa machine shop for about $ 100.00. i pull the motor and strip it down to the bare block. take it to the shop and they order a new valve seat and machine it down to fit the blaok and install. i have several motors that have been repaired. if you want to get rid of your onan's in favor of replacement, i'm always looking for bad motors for a good price lol, depending where you are in Delaware i'm not too far away

 

 

 

 

eric j     

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boomers_influence

club

one of my local customers, ( mn )

is getting the seat replaced, all valves and seats ground.

cylinder walls de/glazed, and a HOT tank cleaning.

the total price 100.00.

thank you boomer

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grine_22

Doing is learning.  If you are afraid, these things aren't nearly as bad as you fear.  I love the challenge of tearing things apart, leaving them sit 3-4 weeks then putting everything back together. Google and YouTube can be a huge help as well, do some homework first then test yourself. Keep these :wh:alive! 

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