GT14 Repower

[dells68 7,494]

Thanks.  I have thought about front wheel weights.  The only thing is I don't really care for how they look.  I've been thinking about the grille weight.  Wonder if I could line the grille with some thin foam and plastic and pour concrete with steel straps anchored in to run up to the brace bolts?  Would want it to be removable and not harm the grille.  If I would go concrete, what about coating it with Bedliner to hide the ugly?

[ztnoo 2,298]

You could use clear plastic sheeting (commonly called Visqueen in the building trades) laid in the grill, so the concrete wouldn't bond to the grill frame.

I could be blocked off with a 2 x 6 anywhere to restrict the vertical height of the weight.

You could add cut off pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" steel rebar to increase density, strength, and weight.

You would need to allow for access to the mounting bolts on the bottom of the grill however, so that likely would require a 4/4 to 1 1/2"  2 x 6  to block off the bottom area of the grill.

The back side of the grill could then be screed off to level the poured material.

"Screed has three meanings in building construction. 1) a flat board (screed board, floating screed) or a purpose-made aluminium tool used to smooth and true materials like concrete, stucco and plaster after it has been placed on a surface or to assist in flattening;^[1] 2) a strip of plaster or wood applied to a surface to act as a guide for a screed tool (screed rail, screed strip, screed batten); 3) the material itself which has been flattened with a screed (screed coat).^[2] In the UK, screed has also come to describe a thin, top layer of material (traditionally sand and cement), poured in site on top of the structural concrete or insulation, on top of which other finishing materials can be applied, or it can be left bare to achieve a raw effect. It is becoming more common to use "self-leveling" poured screeds which use materials other than cement as their binder."

For our purposes here, I'm using #1 definition.

*  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screed

Additionally, if needed, you could construct a form of a predetermined height (to clear the front of the engine) beyond the existing grill sides to add additional weight.

 

One cubic foot of concrete weighs 150 lbs.

1  cubic feet - ft^3 = 150.23 lbs.

That weight figure is really dependent on the volume and type of aggregate added to the mix, but 150# per cubic foot is plenty good enough for our purposes here.

You can calculate potential weight by deciding what you want to do, take the measurements, and plug them into a formula such as this:

http://www.calculator.net/concrete-calculator.html

 

Just to get some wild idea of what it might take to add back the weight you have lost in the repower, I plugged in some figures to see what they might add up to.

I used the Slabs, Square Footings, or Walls tool for this calculation.

Imagine a pour into the grill 9" high (vertically) x 12" wide x 4.5" thick (front to back or grill).

0.281 cubic feet or 0.0104 cubic yards

150# (one cubic foot) x .281 = 45.15 lbs

Not as much weight as one might imagine.

Changing the height dimension only, and using same other dimensions, only results in minimal weight change.

12" x 12" x 4.5" = .375 cubic feet or 0.0139 cubic yards

150# (one cubic foot) x .375 = 56.25 lbs.

 

Of course filling the pour with a significant amount of steel rebar could marginally increase the weight, but again not as much as you might think because you would lose the weight of the displaced volume of concrete.

The gain in weight would be marginal given the small dimensions I used.

Rebar weights per lineal foot can be found here: http://www.gerdaucp.com/reference/rebar_weight_per_linear_foot.aspx

 

IMHO, this a lot of fiddle farting around to gain minimal weight.

Again I would emphasis, I believe the added weight, whatever it is, should remain as low as possible to retain a low center of gravity. Preferably right down on the top of the frame rails.

If I were you, my first shot would be to try the cast iron weight lifting plates first. You have absolutely nothing to lose by making a couple of cardboard cut outs based on my plate dimensions and see if one or the other, or both sizes will slide in there under the engine. If you recall, 87 lbs. + or -  was what was needed to make up the differential. At minimum, if a 25# template will slide in there, more might be possible. If a 50# template will go it there, that's even better. One 50#, one 25#, and one 10# weights, and you're essentially where you would  be in terms of stock weight with a full six gallon tank. Even if you have to unbolt the engine and lift it or tilt it up to get the weights slid into the bottom of the grill and maybe leveled out on the frame rails with a 1/2" x 1/2" square steel tubing or whatever is the appropriate dimension, that seems to me a lot less work than unbolting the grill and pouring concrete in it and then trying to get the thing remounted. I think Aldon can attest to what a PITA that job is. And don't forget concrete doesn't attain its full tensile strength for 28 to 30 days...... the slower it cures the greater the strength. If curing is rushed, it won't reach its design strength. Granted this is not a load bearing application, but if this was used as your weigh option, and its not fully cured, it will be subjected to vibrations and shaking of the tractor running, it could fracture or spider web.

Just making suggestions......but do what you feel is best for you.

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by ztnoo

[dells68 7,494]

Thanks Steve.  No need to apologize, that's what we all come here for - help and input.  Honestly don't know which way I'm going to go.  Definitely got to get some weight back up front.  Rears are fluid filled, so plenty of weight back there - gotta get it back up front.  Your idea about screeding off the grille was along the lines of what I was thinking, just to keep a somewhat original look off at a distance (I know the predator already killed that, but I'll eventually doctor that with a little regal red).  I don't know, but I don't really like the look of the round weights - maybe they remind me of working a little too hard in the gym!  Not my favorite place.  I get plenty of table muscle action 3, 4, 5 times a day!  Maybe a combination of grille weight and if I have to, wheel weights.

[ztnoo 2,298]

This was just listed over at wheel horse tractors show and sell ! Facebook site.

I'm not saying it would work on a GT 14, but the concept might be adaptable.

It might even be designed to hang conventional tractor front end weights from it if properly designed and fabricated.

The seller is asking $200 for it.   A guy could do a lot for that kind of money designing and fabbing his own.

Wheel Horse Front Weight and Bracket

[limited12 360]

looks like you got both of them up and running, good job

i might need to borrow them will you deliver 

[dells68 7,494]

Sure Tommy, I might have to charge delivery fees plus appreciation value.  I'm thrilled with both tractors!  Look forward to seeing you at the show!

 

Steve, I had thought about the same thing.  Make a similar bracket and add some regular suitcase style lawn and garden weights.  I think I could get a set of weights that are plasma cut for about $100.  They weigh in at 11lbs each and you get 5 for that.  I bought a set for Emory's suburban and they look and work great.  Only thing would be if I use it to push snow that I'd have to remove them.  How much would that affect handling in the snow?  Too much I'm afraid, but then again my driveway is straight and we usually only have to plow out 2 or 3 times each year.  Good thing about being sick is it gives you plenty of thinking time so you don't rush into anything! I also thought about bending up some sheet metal to the shape of a set of weights, capping one end, filling with concrete and then capping the other end.  I don't mind a little fab and welding work.

[dells68 7,494]

Hey guys.  I actually felt like messing with my 2nd GT after work this evening.  First day all week I've had any sap at all!  I fabbed UK an exhaust flange and pipe extension.  I put two straps coming down from the grille support bar to give the exhaust a little extra support since I'm running a cub muffler.  I also got the battery in, remounted the switch panel so it will clear the side panel, and put a throttle cable on. With the one inch lift, the pulley sits almost perfect with the belt cover.  Going to take it for a work day in the outdoor classroom at our school tomorrow, or today as it seems.  We'll see how she does pulling an old cart of mine.

[953 nut 51,495]

   Glad to hear you are feeling better and able to get back in the shop.      

[ztnoo 2,298]

Dell,

Glad to hear you've recovered from the "walking dead" syndrome.

Exhaust fabrication looks great. It can't help but support that big, long, top heavy, outboard, exhaust stack.

You may also find you might also need some kind of support with a right angle brace coming off the muffler stack itself to your new assembly.

 

Just a tip on the relationship of the part of the belt guard assembly that bolts into the engine bolt with a 5/8" bolt. I see your new engine has no provision for that mounting point as the Kohler K321 did. Watch that area very carefully. I would suggest finding a way to secure this part of the guard in a substantial fashion to something solid.....otherwise vibration and movement may allow this corner of the pulley guard to vibrate laterally, side to side and come into contact with the belt. Find a way to fix that to stabilize the assembly in that area.

There's not much normal clearance in this area between the belt and the guard, so make sure the belt is seated well in the engine drive pulley and not sticking up above that pulley, and adjust the guard upward as much as you can to allow for maximum clearance between the guard and the belt itself.

If the belt does come in contact with the guard edge, it stands a good chance of cutting and shredding the top and/or inside of the hydro belt. If that happens, you'll have a new POS belt in no time. Guaranteed.

How do I know???? Because my GT 14 ate a brand new WH belt up in a few minutes because the belt wasn't seated inside the outer perimeter of the engine drive pulley. The WH new belt actuality was sticking up above the pulley perimeter! I gave up and went back to by old standby, a brand new Gates PowerRated 6985 hydro belt which fully seats in the pulley. See my edit of your pic below text for the precise area to which I am referring.

Additionally make d@mn sure that engine drive pulley is socked down tight and securely, and aligned properly with the SECURED top corner of the guard for belt clearance, or a pulley looseness problem will only compound the problematic critical clearances required not to damage the hydro drive belt. This is something that really never gets thought about or checked over by most of us until a problem has already occurred. Since I found my pulley slightly loose in my winter work on my GT 14, I plan on keeping a regular eye on that item to avoid future problems.

 

btw, what do you teach? In high school, elementary school, junior high school, vocational school, or what?

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

I modified my guard slightly to allow for more clearance and less likelihood of damage. I ain't taking it to the fair to win a blue ribbon, I just wanted it to work without damaging the belt. Call it a

minor adjustment with a ball peen hammer.....

 

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by ztnoo

[limited12 360]

Glad you are feeling better

looks like you are going to have two good gt-14

 

[dells68 7,494]

Just got home from a workday at our school. We're getting our outdoor classroom/garden ready for this year.  My son and I took the repowered GT along with a dump cart.  I was really surprised how well the tractor did.  It pulled really well and sounded great.  Emory had a blast and wants to go back again soon!  Steve - I teach 2nd grade.  Can't help but love the little kids and their excitement for life!  Do you teach?

[ztnoo 2,298]

Dell,

No........I don't teach and never have.......but I've always been a "student" of one thing or another.

Still learning at 67.

B.A. 1970: Political Science major, History minor. Spent most of my working adult life as a self employed trim and frame carpenter. A curious mix there, for sure.

This place, RS, is a great place to learn a lot more about some things I have no clue about.

 

Seriously, please heed my cautions about the belt guard clearances and a secure fastening of the upper front corner of the belt guard (the old Kohler mounting hole location) to prevent side to side movement.

Don't ignore the hydro drive pulley either.......since you just installed it on an engine with a sleeve adapter to size the crank to the drive pulley bore.

Empiricism is a great instructor...especially in the physical world...there's nothing quite like real world experiences to increase one's knowledge base going forward.

Steve

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by ztnoo

[ztnoo 2,298]

Dell & Aldon,

Did you guys see this front end suitcase weight hanger bracket?

Its not on a GT 14, but its nice looking and the workmanship appears to be first rate.

 

[dells68 7,494]

Saw that.  Awesome fabrication!  I'll probably build something similar when I get around to it.  I was surprised that it didn't do too bad Saturday.  I was expecting it to be much lighter - ok as long as you're careful.  Rear tires have fluid and it makes a world of difference with traction compared to the ones on my other GT.

[ericj 1,576]

. got a flyer from harbor freight email that has the 22 hp predator v twin motor for $ 550.00, don't need one now, but almost tempted to buy one   

 

 

 

 

eric j 

[jetmandan 29]

dells68, thank you for this thread. I'm close to start rebuilding my GT14 using same Harbor Freight 13h engine. My 1970 GT14 sat for many years in the central Oregon rain, snow and summer sun, it needs tons of work to live again. The hydro pump was off when I bought and sat in the elements for years, not going to try and save it. Have a couple Charger 12's in the parts pile, one will be sacrificed to save the GT. Since the HF engines have no charging systems and after market Honda charging coils are 6 amps at best, I plan to add a mini-one wire 60amp alternator. It should fit where HF tank sits. Will be removing recoil starter and machining a pulley to spin alternator. Have not worked out where battery and fuel tank will end up yet. The goal is to have her 100% operational, easy to start and economical on fuel. This will be a resto-mod, other then the obvious motor change I want rest of the tractor to look close to original.

 

Dan