Axel seals

[MalMac 1,328]

Trying to figure what the thought was behind the use of double axel seals on the last 8 speeds to come out of Toro on the 315's. I know the obvious, to provide a better sealing, they seam to seal just fine for many many years. I can not see any design changes. Just curious as to why they felt the need.

[Phatboy 565]

I was unaware they did this.. Can you dbl seal all 8 speeds or only the 315's ?,,, if so then someday when i habe to change mine i will dbl them.. As far as i was told by my WH dealer it is supposed to be normal if you take your machine out and work it hard  like a plow day or something that it is normal for them to "seap" a little or make axel look a little wet,, so they say ,, i guess i havent worked mine hard enough yet havent noticed,, is that true ? A little bit of seapage os normal? If so maybe thats why they added second seal to stop that maybe ppl complain about it,, can anyone clear that mystery up ?

[N3PUY 1,031]

If you use 2 seals the inner seal will get lubricated while the outer will remain dry.   The dry seal will wear into the axle making a groove.   Unless you pack the space between seals with grease.  YES, NO ???

[roadapples 6,981]

8 minutes ago, N3PUY said:

If you use 2 seals the inner seal will get lubricated while the outer will remain dry.   The dry seal will wear into the axle making a groove.   Unless you pack the space between seals with grease.  YES, NO ???

I`ve heard this also. Haven`t actually seen it myself... One seal should do the job..

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I think you guys are over thinking this.    Tim, did you see this in the manual??  I know people have done this or at least have talked about doing this, but I really see no advantage unless you own stock in SKF....which closed up 1/4 today. 

    N3PUY is probably right about the outer seal drying out. 

[pfrederi 17,129]

There are double lipped seals.  Use some on my big tractors.  The inner lip is to keep the oil in the outer lip supposedly keeps dirt/trash out. I got one for D200 hydro pump input shaft

[Racinbob 10,268]

I'm thinking more along Pauls comment. I don't see a rubber seal wearing into steel. With good bearing and seals there really isn't any seepage with just one seal. Dang it! You made me make t trip to the barn to take a look at mine. No seepage at all.

[pfrederi 17,129]

Seals have improved.  On my old tractors and M37.  There were 1/2 inch thick.  The was a felt band (to keep out he dirt and then a leather inner seal.  (Ever wonder why it was called Chicago Rawhide (CR seals))  Problem was the felt would get wet and hold dirts /grit wearing the shaft.... New seals are neoprene/rubber etc.  and half as thick.

[MalMac 1,328]

Steve, if look at the parts diagram for the 2007 classic garden tractor (315 8 speed) it shows two outer seals and call for 4 of them to be used. The quality of the seals Toro uses now, maybe they need 2. I myself have switched to national seal. There made by Federal Mogal. They still use steel in the outer ring.

Edited February 24, 2016 by MalMac

[Racinbob 10,268]

Gadzooks! I just took a look at my 2005 Classic parts list and sure enough, 2 seals per axle. I didn't know that.

Oh well, no seepage.

[N3PUY 1,031]

My 416-8 has 2 seals per axle.    The C125 has 1 per axle.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Thanks Tim...that is what I wanted to know. 

   Paul. I remember the felt and leather seals.  How old does that make me?  And they worked great...just became too expensive to make. 

 

N3PUY...I would not change a thing...until this thread runs it's course.  Just because one tractor has double seals does not mean they all have to have it.    Get the lawn chair out, sit back, have a Rock & Rye and watch this thread. 

 

[N3PUY 1,031]

 stevasaurus,  I'm not planing on changing a thing.  When I replaced the seals on the 416-8 the WH dealer said some have 2 per axle which mine did.    This fall I replaced them on the C125 and it had just one.  If the seal is good and the axle is clean they won't leak.  I would think the extra seal is a dirt shield.  My replacements are "National" seals.   #340835 for the 1 1/8" axles.   ........   #312518 for the brake shaft ..........  #340387 for the input shaft.     #240731 for the 1" axle.    I can get them at work... cheap!  

[doc724 924]

Prior to this thread, the only place I have seen double seals is on tiller shafts and for good reason.

 

On axle seals, if you use toro brand, the rubber lip is molded to plastic.  Maybe that is why they use two.  I always replace mine with CR/NAPA/SKF seals which have a metal shell.

 

The plastic seals are IMO worthless.  I replaced all the seals in my C141 with Toro seals.  My wife drove it around thatching and forgot to take the parking break off.  My neighbor noticed the smoke pouring off  the machine and let me know.   Paint on the brake drum was burned off and after that I got some leaking around the brake shaft seal.  Finally got around to getting an SKF replacement and went to pull out the Toro seal...it was gone, must have burned up and fell off. 

[roadapples 6,981]

36 minutes ago, N3PUY said:

 stevasaurus,  I'm not planing on changing a thing.  When I replaced the seals on the 416-8 the WH dealer said some have 2 per axle which mine did.    This fall I replaced them on the C125 and it had just one.  If the seal is good and the axle is clean they won't leak.  I would think the extra seal is a dirt shield.  My replacements are "National" seals.   #340835 for the 1 1/8" axles.   ........   #312518 for the brake shaft ..........  #340387 for the input shaft.     #240731 for the 1" axle.    I can get them at work... cheap!  

Are they the same for the hydro trans? I would assume they are but not sure....

[MalMac 1,328]

I believe the hydro's take a different seal. If I remember right the seal is a thicker more meatier seal. Been along time since I replaced a hydro axel seal. I am sure someone will chime in here that knows.

[cleat 4,936]

Hydro's use thinner oil could be a little harder to seal in.

 

I replace shafts on pumps at work all the time due to grooves being cut into them by the nice soft CR rubber seals.

 

Of course these pumps run 24/7 at either 1600 or 3200 RPM.

 

[pfrederi 17,129]

The Sundstrand Hydros used WH # 6449 for axle seals.  8 speeds used 100443.

 

They cross to SKF (CR) 11124 for the hydro which as you can see is really a double lipped seal and SKF (CR) 11050 for the 8 speeds a single lip seal.  Maybe WH was thinking keeping dirt out of the hydro systems was more important than for the 8 speeds????

[roadapples 6,981]

Thanks, may save me an extra trip to NAPA..

[Don Webber 0]

I read about axil seals. The NAPA seal number was 11124. Do you think that is the right seal for my 1973 Raider? 8 speed-12hp k301.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,488]

 

1 hour ago, Don Webber said:

I read about axil seals. The NAPA seal number was 11124. Do you think that is the right seal for my 1973 Raider? 8 speed-12hp k301.

Welcome to the forum.

This may be the parts list for your tractor

The seal listed is Wheel Horse # 100443 which is Napa CR 11050 or National 340835. The dimensions are up a post or two. The OD of the seal is 1.375" or 1-3/8" for the 1-1/8" axle.

 

Garry

[stevasaurus 22,229]

No...the 11124 is not correct for the manual transmissions....you want (if your axle is 1 1/8" dia) SKF 11050. 

 

Garry. we posted at the same time.   

The SKF 11124 is for the Hydros.

[Don Webber 0]

Thank you guys.  I am new to this sight and you have  been a great help.  Yes, I do think the SKF 11050 are the right seals for me.