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ztnoo

GT 14 Sundstrand hydro drive belt

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ztnoo

I'm looking for the dimensional specs on a drive belt for a Sundstrand hydro on my GT 14.

The original WH part # is 8334.

 

Any info anyone can provide would be much appreciated.

Also any info on recommended after market belt manufacturers of the dimensional size of the OEM 8334 belt would be helpful.

 

Regards,

Steve

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pfrederi

85" 5/8 Gates 6985

 

For 8 speeds i always use WH belts...but for hydros like yours i haven't had issues with aftermarket

Edited by pfrederi
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daveoman1966

The Wheelhorse OEM belt 8334 is 85 x .625.    Parts Tree has it for about $45.  I would suggest paying a few bux more for the OEM and be done with it for the next 30 years or so.     

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Shynon
3 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

The Wheelhorse OEM belt 8334 is 85 x .625.    Parts Tree has it for about $45.  I would suggest paying a few bux more for the OEM and be done with it for the next 30 years or so.     

I agree if and OEM belt is available that's the only thing I would use. :twocents-02cents:

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DennisThornton

I'm for sure not arguing against OEM, and definitely against ordinary no-name belts but I must note that I've had great luck with Huskee Kevlar V-Belts from Tractor Supply.  Heavy emphasis on "Kevlar"!

 

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daveoman1966

I adopted my 1st Wheelhorse in 1971 a little 656 as it came with the money-pit house we bought.  Within about 2 years, I upgraded to a lightly-used Bronco 14 (dealer trade-in)  which is still used for mowing.  Sometime in the mid 80s, I brought home a C-160 and hung a 48" dozer blade on it, two 75-lb wheel weights, 2-link chains, and fluid filled tires.  ps...I'm a little annoyed that--- here in the PA panhandle--- we've had less than 12' inches TOTAL snowfall.

 

Anyway..... My local dealer SERVICE TECHY (Grants Feed Store...Meadville, PA...(closed up in the 90s)), told me to always use the Wheelhorse OEM belts because of the proprietary geometry of the pulley(s) used by Wheelhorse. That is, the shape of the 'V' in the pulleys is proprietary and after-market belts do not precisely match the contour / shape of the various pulleys.  Accordingly, if the belt does not match the 'V' pulley, there will be a propensity for it to slip, leading to premature belt failure or belt roll-over (still a failure).   Secondly, a mis-matched belt MAY ride too high above, or sink too low into the 'V'' of the pulley...further exasperating owner's grief. 

 

So, to relay what the service guru ...Spend a few extra bux and get the right belt. 

ps...about 3 years ago, I had to replace the main drive belt (7478)  in that Bronco 14....after nearly 40 years service.  That should be enough to convince all. 

 

 

                        

Edited by daveoman1966
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Shynon

Dave like you I worked part time for Minnesota Maintenance in Faribault Mn, and Curly also told me to use only OEM belts nothing else will last. So if available that's all I will use. Besides I ran a modified Wheel Horse pulling tractor  and used nothing but OEM belts, I could ride on two wheels for the distance of the pull on one OEM belt. That's all the proof I needed. Another thing I remember Curly saying was don't use Valvoline in a hydrostatic because it would foam, we only used Mobil 1

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ztnoo

I purchased two belts from Ron Greco (Big_Game) for my GT 14 recently.

This is the first time I have tried official WH belts. Got a # 8334 hydro drive belt and a # 9783 PTO deck drive belt.

Don't have them installed yet because I'm doing other work on the tractor, but I'm anxious to see how they perform and hold up over time.

Ron was super to deal with, a great and prompt communicator, and with very,very reasonable pricing.

I would encourage everyone to communicate with Ron about their Wheel Horse belt needs.

rsgreco@embarqmail.com

 

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daveoman1966

In 1973 I bought a 1972 Dealer-demo Bronco 14 with 48" mower deck.  About 4 years ago, the engine to hydro belt (#7478) went south and I had to buy a new one for about $30 on-line.  My math tells me that the OEM belt lasted only 40 years, or about 75 cents per year.  That's enough to convince me that OEM is the only way to go.   

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ztnoo

Well, I thought I'd report on my first experience with a Wheel Horse belt (8334 hydro drive belt).

 

I finally got everything back down on the ground after working on my GT 14 off and on for a couple of months this winter.

I bought some new gauge wheels and rollers for the deck and installed the hydro drive belt and deck drive belt with items I bought from Ron Greco.

Got the right side belt cover on and took the tractor out on the drive.

 

Right off the bat the drive belt came off the hydro pulley. Got it back on and let the tractor idle for a while.

Then I switched on the clutch to let deck drive system run for while without real load on it to kinda seat things in.

Probably let things run about 10 minutes, but I noticed there seemed to be more belt related noise than what I'm used to.

Switched the clutch off, climbed on board, started the clutch back up, and rolled toward where I normally start mowing.

Bingo, the drive belt came off again. Remember this is the new WH belt.......the one's that supposedly live forever.

Got the belt back on, but decided to pull the guard back off to see if there was anything obvious causing the belt derailment.

 

After removing the guard, I noted the inside edge of my brand new belt was chewed up! You gotta be kiddin' me!

Then I noticed the belt actually was sticking up above the outside edge of the engine drive pulley (the one I tightened back down after figuring out how to get the clutch off). It was like the belt wouldn't fully seat below the outside edge of the pulley......for whatever reason. The Wheel Horse belt wasn't seating sufficiently into the drive pulley to allow for clearance with the front of the guard!!!

From past memory, I know that guard to belt clearance on the top side just outboard of the mounting bolt is close, but I've never had a belt actually stick above the outside edge of the drive pulley and I've NEVER cut a drive belt like the WH belt was cut and scarred. I've never had what happened to a Gates PoweRated belt. Observe clearance area in the pic below from dells88. I typically had the same close clearances.

Dell's GT 14 guard aa.jpg

 

I quickly decided with the damage that had occurred to the new belt, I'd be better off putting my old Gates belt back on, than further attempt to use the WH belt.

So, I switched out belts and purposely left the belt guard off to see and watch what was going on from time to time.

The old belt came off the hydro pulley several times during my mowing session. A real PITA, but I did get my mowing done and it needed it.

 

Damage to the new 8334 WH belt:

IMG_0634a.jpg

 

IMG_0632a.jpg

 

IMG_0633a.JPG

 

IMG_0631a.jpg

 

IMG_0635a.jpg

 

So I went to my favorite local auto parts store and ordered and installed a new Gates 6985 PoweRated belt, the belt I have always used previously. It seats fully into the drive pulley.

I'm going to mow for the second time this afternoon after it dries out and see what happens. That's what I've used in the past and never had a problem with clearances. Wish me good luck.

I don't blame my particular problem on anyone or anything except the Wheel Horse belt not seating in the pulley, for whatever reason. I can honestly say I'm not pleased with the result and my experience. C'est la vie.

I've modified my belt guard somewhat to hopefully help alleviate some of the close clearances and prevent future belt damage.

A close up of the modification....... a slight ball peen hammer modification .....

I ain't takin' this to the fair to try for a blue ribbon award. I just want to successfully mow my yard in a trouble free way.

IMG_0619a.jpg

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ztnoo

Well, I'm extremely pleased to report the Gates PoweRated 6985 belt performed flawlessly today for my second mowing session of the season. Not the slightest problem doing what it should do and was commanded to do.

Crisp, clean, and positive power transmission from the Kohler K341 to the Sundstrand hydro unit.......every time I shifted fore or aft.

With the change of ATF & tranny filter over the winter, now coupled with a brand new hydro drive belt, it was almost like driving a new machine.

Seriously!

After the trouble I encountered attempting to run the WH 8334 belt for my first mowing session of the season, I was really bummed out, and thought I might have other serious problems contributing to the terrible performance I encountered.

For whatever reason, on my machine, the WH belt was definitely not at home and didn't "fit in"........literally.

The problem was caused by the belt not seating in the pulley and thus having inadequate running clearance with the belt guard.

 

I would welcome any input, theories, and commentaries as to why what happened to me, occurred the way it did......especially from dyed-in-the-wool WH belt users.

What say you, Gentlemen???

 

btw, the WH PTO belt to drive the deck works fine.

Go figure............umm.gif

Edited by ztnoo
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Shynon
9 hours ago, ztnoo said:

Well, I thought I'd report on my first experience with a Wheel Horse belt (8334 hydro drive belt).

 

I finally got everything back down on the ground after working on my GT 14 off and on for a couple of months this winter.

I bought some new gauge wheels and rollers for the deck and installed the hydro drive belt and deck drive belt with items I bought from Ron Greco.

Got the right side belt cover on and took the tractor out on the drive.

 

Right off the bat the drive belt came off the hydro pulley. Got it back on and let the tractor idle for a while.

Then I switched on the clutch to let deck drive system run for while without real load on it to kinda seat things in.

Probably let things run about 10 minutes, but I noticed there seemed to be more belt related noise than what I'm used to.

Switched the clutch off, climbed on board, started the clutch back up, and rolled toward where I normally start mowing.

Bingo, the drive belt came off again. Remember this is the new WH belt.......the one's that supposedly live forever.

Got the belt back on, but decided to pull the guard back off to see if there was anything obvious causing the belt derailment.

 

After removing the guard, I noted the inside edge of my brand new belt was chewed up! You gotta be kiddin' me!

Then I noticed the belt actually was sticking up above the outside edge of the engine drive pulley (the one I tightened back down after figuring out how to get the clutch off). It was like the belt wouldn't fully seat below the outside edge of the pulley......for whatever reason. The Wheel Horse belt wasn't seating sufficiently into the drive pulley to allow for clearance with the front of the guard!!!

From past memory, I know that guard to belt clearance on the top side just outboard of the mounting bolt is close, but I've never had a belt actually stick above the outside edge of the drive pulley and I've NEVER cut a drive belt like the WH belt was cut and scarred. I've never had what happened to a Gates PoweRated belt. Observe clearance area in the pic below from dells88. I typically had the same close clearances.

Dell's GT 14 guard aa.jpg

 

I quickly decided with the damage that had occurred to the new belt, I'd be better off putting my old Gates belt back on, than further attempt to use the WH belt.

So, I switched out belts and purposely left the belt guard off to see and watch what was going on from time to time.

The old belt came off the hydro pulley several times during my mowing session. A real PITA, but I did get my mowing done and it needed it.

 

Damage to the new 8334 WH belt:

IMG_0634a.jpg

 

IMG_0632a.jpg

 

IMG_0633a.JPG

 

IMG_0631a.jpg

 

IMG_0635a.jpg

 

So I went to my favorite local auto parts store and ordered and installed a new Gates 6985 PoweRated belt, the belt I have always used previously. It seats fully into the drive pulley.

I'm going to mow for the second time this afternoon after it dries out and see what happens. That's what I've used in the past and never had a problem with clearances. Wish me good luck.

I don't blame my particular problem on anyone or anything except the Wheel Horse belt not seating in the pulley, for whatever reason. I can honestly say I'm not pleased with the result and my experience. C'est la vie.

I've modified my belt guard somewhat to hopefully help alleviate some of the close clearances and prevent future belt damage.

A close up of the modification....... a slight ball peen hammer modification .....

I ain't takin' this to the fair to try for a blue ribbon award. I just want to successfully mow my yard in a trouble free way.

IMG_0619a.jpg

 

 

     Steve the one thing  I see is I don't believe you have the correct engine pulley on your GT 14, should be machined cast, yours appears to be a steel pulley. Here's some pics of mine.

 

 

IMG_5871.JPG

IMG_5872.JPG

IMG_5873.JPG

IMG_5874.JPG

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daveoman1966

I gotta agree... the frayed belt is likely due to the wrong engine pulley.  The geometry of OEM belts is matched to their proprietary pulleys.  If using other than OEM pulleys, the OEM belt will not precisely match the contour / geometry of the V in the pulley, giving rise to (1) rock & roll (2) belt drag (3) slipping.  The combination of those 3 factors...and more... is likely the root cause. 

A GT-14 would have the Kohler 14hp K321 engine.  You mentioned the engine is a K341...16hp engine.  If the engine is a transplant from some other brand tractor, then the wrong pulley came with it.? ? ?...just a thought. 

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ztnoo

Shynon  &  daveoman1966,

Well, I've owned the tractor for 35 years. Yes, the engine got changed out about 20 years ago when the K321 rod broke and lunched the block, although not by me, but the same clutch for sure got reinstalled on a brand new K341, not something off another tractor, so the cranks had to have been the same.....1 1/8". I can't imagine why the hydro drive pulley would have been changed to something different at that time if the crank diameters were the same. If it was changed, I have no recollection of a discussion of that possibility or reality with anyone. My assumption was and has always been whatever was pulled from the K321 was transferred over to the K341. My tractor is a first year Model 1-7741 tractor, so maybe some of the drive pulleys installed in part of the production run were different than later tractors and pulleys. I have no idea. All I know is the pulley accepts the 5/8" Gates belt with no problem whatsoever, but eats WH 8334 belts, in conjunction with the guard, in a matter of minutes.

 

I myself had never messed with the drive pulley or the clutch, for that matter until this winter. I discovered the drive pulley was a little loose (I would describe it as slightly wobbly because one of the two set screws was slightly loose and I had to learn how to pull the clutch to get to the drive pulley. Before I removed it to inspect it and the reinstall it, I specifically measured how far it was from the inside edge of the pulley to the Kohler block, and I duplicated that dimension on reinstalling and applying red Locktite to the allen grub screws. I took plenty of pics of the clutch pulling and the clutch itself, including chasing with a tap the somewhat dinged up 5/8 x 11 "puller/pusher" threads which I was able to clean up, but never took a pic of the hydro drive pulley itself, so I can't say definitively I have the right pulley. All I know is things have worked perfectly fine of all the time I've had the tractor when running a Gates belt.......then suddenly I stick a Wheel Horse hydro drive belt on, and I instantly have problems.

 

Shynon, it appears your belt to pulley clearance relationship is also extremely close, and in fact may have suffer some sort of wear and trauma at one time of another with that dinged and upturned front guard edge......or has been modified to provide less interference and increase the belt to guard clearances in that area.  The pulley called for in my 1-7441 parts diagrams is 8059 which transposes to 100390 at RCPW, but is NLA. I can't find reference to either the old or the new part number at Toro or PartsTree at all......like it never existed as far as they are concerned. Things can get a little vague and foggy 47 years after manufacture, and I know for a fact comparing my '69 model to Aldon's '71 model GT 14s, that there are small, minor, in production changes that did occur. Also, I note what I would describe as a belt guide rod bolted to Shynon's lower Kohler block area, which my engine doesn't have and I have no recollection of the previous engine having, either. What model number is your GT 14? The rod is interesting to take note of, but totally unrelated to my specific problem because my problem was originated in the area on the top of the guard adjacent to the mounting hole for the front corner to the Kohler block.

 

Its all a little mysterious, and out of curiosity, I may pull the clutch again to have closer look see at the drive pulley to see if I can identify a part number in the casting. But regardless, at this point, I'm about 99 44/100% sure I'm going to stick with what works for me........the Gates PoweRated 6985 belt. Being a stickler or purist for using the "original" part recommended in this instance, definitely takes a back seat to what works in the real world for me. C'est la vie.

 

Edited by ztnoo

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ACman

My family sold gates belts for years . Stick to what works for you, who knows what they did at the factory back in the day . We had an Allis Chalmers 7030 come in for a rebuild and the parts we ordered from AC some weren't matching up . After further investigation to calls to AC we found that this was a factory test motor for there pulling program in the 70's . So instead of destroying a motor they rebuilt it and put on the production line . Who knew , what's the odds of that happening . 

Edited by ACman
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