C-175 back in action!! Snowmagedon 2014

[SousaKerry 500]

Well the trailblazer 5 couldn't keep up and tapped out shortly after Christmas. So this week we finally drug the blower out of the woods and mated it to the C-175. Had to get a new belt and took 2 days to get turned around and headed the right direction. As every time we moved out by the shed we sunk in deeper or something would break. Tonight the snow gods smiled and across the yard we went fighting all the way. As you can see we chewed a path deeper then the blower by the end I dug through a 5' snow pile to get to the road. Unfortunately the battery died on the phone before I got that far. I will get some photos in the daylight of the path of destruction.

[AMC RULES 36,940]

Congratulations...series one or two?

[SousaKerry 500]

Series II rescued from a Cub

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

That was some serious work!!! How long did it take you to get everything clear? Also, are there any differences between a KT17 series 2 engine speced for Wheel Horse vs. a KT17 series 2 speced for Cub Cadet? I am asking this question just in case one of those comes my way. I do reallyreally like those engines.

[jackhammer 544]

What he said ... Wheel-N-It

 

I love the way they sound ( series II engine), have one as a winter project if I ever talk myself into getting into it just trying to make it run. Sure got rid of alot of material for you.

 

Good luck with it

Edited February 6, 2014 by jackhammer

[WH nut 553]

Its always nice to see a hungry horse

[SousaKerry 500]

 

are there any differences between a KT17 series 2 engine speced for Wheel Horse vs. a KT17 series 2 speced for Cub Cadet

I did the project about 5 years ago, the only thing i remember having an issue with was the muffler output.  I reused the original Cub muffler as I did not have a WH one, I cut off the outlet and welded a plug over it.  I then put in a new outlet in the center of the muffler facing out the side of the tractor.  I reused the grass screen from a K301 as the Cub had a huge hole in the center for the dive shaft.  Some minor wiring changes and I had to source parts from a C-175 to make the PTO work as I wanted to retain the shaker plate.  Also a new belt guard was needed that I fabbed up out of Stainless Steel.  Although if you starting with a C-175 or a 417 you won't need all the PTO parts.  My tractor started out life as a 1981 C-125.

 

 

[steelman 250]

Nice video, this is sure the year for blowers in Michigan. Some years they never leave the barn. This year I have the blower working three days a week and it is sure satisfying to move that much snow. I call them snow eaters!

[rexman72 210]

nice vid and great work by the horse

[Wheel Horse Kid 104]

Cool video! Looks like that C175 handled that blower very well!

[boovuc 1,090]

OMG! That is great!  

[roscoemi 245]

SousaKerry, that looks familiar. I spent a few nights doing the same thing!

[SousaKerry 500]

Here are the promised pics the tractor is under the tarp resting up for the next snow.

 

In the last picture this is where we were stuck for two nights

Edited February 7, 2014 by SousaKerry

[Stigian 1,234]

Love the video, it shows the raw snow shifting power of a Wheel Horse

[leeave96 487]

Good gravely! That's some serious snow!!! Great video too!

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

Thank you for answering that question about the Cub engine transplant. Where I am coming from regarding these non Wheel Horse spec engines is this;

I have read on forums there is a big difference in the single cylinder Wheel Horse spec Kohlers vs. the non Wheel Horse spec Kohlers. That big difference is the Kohler spec engines have a bearing on both ends of the crank, and the non WH spec engines do not. Please correct me if I am wrong about what I just said. Anyway if that is the case, I am wondering if the same thing applies to the KT-17 series 2 engines?  Again, just in case one of these engines happens to come my way I would like top know if this is something I need to investigate before buying.

Any thoughts on this???

[SousaKerry 500]

I have heard the same warnings on the singles. I don't think it applies to the twins but I frankly don't know. It's been running fine for me for over 5 years. One season it did mowing duty but other then that it only sees occasional use.

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

I have heard the same warnings on the singles. I don't think it applies to the twins but I frankly don't know. It's been running fine for me for over 5 years. One season it did mowing duty but other then that it only sees occasional use.

 

Alrighty then, thats good news! It may not apply to the twins because they are of course two cylinder, higher horsepower and appx 45 cubic inches in displacement. My engine rebuilder friend (Kevin) called me last week to tell me he is just about ready/able to get started rebuilding a K341 that goes in an almost cherry C-165 8spd I have. Next time I see him in person I will ask him about whether or not the KT17's have crank bearings on both ends or not. I'll keep you in that loop. Have a great day!

BTW, I'll be posting pics of the C-165 as it goes back together.

[pfrederi 17,114]

With KT series one engines there are differences!!  Wheel horse specified 2 ball bearings on the crank shaft.  John Deere did not, just sleeve bearings on the crank.  That is why when I used KT 17 from a JD 317 to repower my C-175 I had to change over to an electric PTO to avoid end loading on the crankshaft.

 

Now in Series II it isn't as clear.  From what I have seen series II did not use ball bearings.  Only one engine variant used a needle thrust bearing and washers. The rest seemed to use just a sleeve bearing with a lip similar to non ball bearing series ones.  Bottom line you better look up the spec number of any motor you plan on using and check the parts manual.  You maybe looking at needing an electric PTO or an external thrust bearing that WH used on some Twin B&S motors that didn't have ball bearings.

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

Uh Ohh, not quite as simple as I hoped it was going to be. sounds like I'd better really do my homework before buying another KT17. Thank you Paul. You may have saved me alot of unnecessary extra expense and frustration. I also have another Wheel Horse on the back burner. A 1995 520H. This is why I am asking questions here about the KT17. The 520 needs an engine, and I do not want to go back with an Onan.

[Shynon 7,435]

Same goes for Onan's. When I worked at the local Wheel horse dealer in the 80's I remember changing out 3 or 4 Onan's 16's and 20's because of a shim washer on the crank, these were John Deere Onan's that had a plastic shim washer and  would not handle the PTO pressure pushing against it.

 

                Tom

[JackC 616]

With KT series one engines there are differences!!  Wheel horse specified 2 ball bearings on the crank shaft.  John Deere did not, just sleeve bearings on the crank.  That is why when I used KT 17 from a JD 317 to repower my C-175 I had to change over to an electric PTO to avoid end loading on the crankshaft.

 

Now in Series II it isn't as clear.  From what I have seen series II did not use ball bearings.  Only one engine variant used a needle thrust bearing and washers. The rest seemed to use just a sleeve bearing with a lip similar to non ball bearing series ones.  Bottom line you better look up the spec number of any motor you plan on using and check the parts manual.  You maybe looking at needing an electric PTO or an external thrust bearing that WH used on some Twin B&S motors that didn't have ball bearings.

Not sure how electric vs manual PTO changes the stress on the crank shaft bearings?  For the wheel horse application there is a pulley on the crank that puts stress in the crank bearing.   If the engine is driving a straight shaft and not a pulley, like on cubs,  then there is less need for ball bearings on the crank.

 

The drive belt pulls toward the back and the mower belt pulls toward the front putting stress on the crank bearing.  Electric vs manual just connects the mower belt pulley to the crank so I don't see how electric vs manual changes anything relative to crank ball bearing or sleeve.  Due to spec variations I would always try to replace wheel horse with wheel horse.  For low hour use it probably won't matter.

[jackhammer 544]

Can you imagine the knowledge within the last 7 replys,      sure is  great for future problems.

 

Thanks guys

 

Rick

[pfrederi 17,114]

Not sure how electric vs manual PTO changes the stress on the crank shaft bearings?  For the wheel horse application there is a pulley on the crank that puts stress in the crank bearing.   If the engine is driving a straight shaft and not a pulley, like on cubs,  then there is less need for ball bearings on the crank.

 

The drive belt pulls toward the back and the mower belt pulls toward the front putting stress on the crank bearing.  Electric vs manual just connects the mower belt pulley to the crank so I don't see how electric vs manual changes anything relative to crank ball bearing or sleeve.  Due to spec variations I would always try to replace wheel horse with wheel horse.  For low hour use it probably won't matter.

The issue is the end loading with a manual PTO.  When you engage the PTO you are pushing in on the end of the crankshaft.  Ball bearings can handle some of that sort of loading.  In a sleeve bearing all there is a thin lip of metal at the end of the sleeve to take the load.  Probably would work for awhile but I doubt that WH went to the extra expense of specifying ball bearings in Series 1 KTs, needle thrust bearings in series 2, and external ball bearings on some B&S motors if they didn't think there would be an issue.

 

The electric PTO does not exert end pressure on teh crank.

[JackC 616]

"The electric PTO does not exert end pressure on the crank."

 

I see your point there.  However, in the wheel horse's drive belt and pulley approach, even if the PTO were not used at all, the drive belt and pulley always exert a side wise and backward force on the crank and a sleeve bearing would wear on one side much quicker than a ball bearing that distributes the wear among all the rotating balls.

 

That, by the way, is why the wheel horse brand has more balls than other brands.

Edited February 8, 2014 by JackC