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Lagersolut

PTO bearings

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Lagersolut

Did these bearing ( one needle , 0ne roller and a seal ) parts / numbers for the most part stay the same over the years ?  the part numbers on the C-101 I'm working on are 109842 ( roller ) 106769 ( needle ) - I was hoping for some cross ref. into the Torringtons or other quality aftermarket that's somewhat cheaper than Toro .

 

 

I'm thinking of rebuilding it ( PTO ) mostly because the tractor is already in pieces on the floor, the PTO still has the original factory bearings in it,  but I'm not 100% convinced it needs done, I have some " slop " in the roller and cage of the needle but for 34 years old they seem fairly good .

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Jeff-C175

I pulled my PTO recently just to see how it worked...

 

What I determined is that the inner needle bearing only spins when the PTO is disengaged.  Once engaged, everything spins together so the inner bearing probably gets a LOT less wear than one might think.  I bet they rarely fail.

 

The outer bearing is spinning when the PTO is engaged.  If any part is going to wear it will be that bearing, and the outer C-clip and groove on the stub shaft.

 

Since it's so easy to remove the PTO assembly, I would wait until there's an actual problem.  Maybe just clean up the old grease, repack with some new and replace the seal (which mine uses a 6663, sorry I don't have a cross for this) ...

 

My 1980 C175 uses the same 106769 needle roller which is a Torrington J-2420

 

The outer bearing is shown as a 106947 on mine, and I don't have a cross for that one, but I think there was a thread I saw that had a replacement shown recently.

 

What does your part list show as a part number for the 'stub shaft' ?

 

Check the thickness of your clutch facing.  The originals were riveted and if it's worn down to the rivets it's time to replace.  The replacements I've seen were bonded... no rivets, about $70 or so for a new one.

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dsholler

There is a thread someplace on here that has step by step instructions about how to replace the bearings... I did it about two years ago on the 414.. it was not hard, but I needed the help of a friendly auto mechanic to get the needle bearing out. The front bearing is the one that failed on mine, so your hypothesis may be correct, although I find that I run the tractor a fair amount without the PTO engaged, but it is certainly less than when it is engaged (pulling the sweeper, for example)

 

However, it is pretty trivial to take the PTO Bell off the tractor, so I would do as Jeffpicks suggests and wait until there is actually something wrong with it.

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Forest Road

I wipe a film of grease on the roller bearing twice a year. Just a light film. When I change the mower deck for the blower in November. Again in May when the grass starts growing.

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Lagersolut

I pulled my PTO recently just to see how it worked...

 

What I determined is that the inner needle bearing only spins when the PTO is disengaged.  Once engaged, everything spins together so the inner bearing probably gets a LOT less wear than one might think.  I bet they rarely fail.

 

The outer bearing is spinning when the PTO is engaged.  If any part is going to wear it will be that bearing, and the outer C-clip and groove on the stub shaft.

 

Since it's so easy to remove the PTO assembly, I would wait until there's an actual problem.  Maybe just clean up the old grease, repack with some new and replace the seal (which mine uses a 6663, sorry I don't have a cross for this) ...

 

My 1980 C175 uses the same 106769 needle roller which is a Torrington J-2420

 

The outer bearing is shown as a 106947 on mine, and I don't have a cross for that one, but I think there was a thread I saw that had a replacement shown recently.

 

What does your part list show as a part number for the 'stub shaft' ?

 

Check the thickness of your clutch facing.  The originals were riveted and if it's worn down to the rivets it's time to replace.  The replacements I've seen were bonded... no rivets, about $70 or so for a new one.

 

 

 

Thanks for the input everyone , Jeff  I'm showing ( item 33 ) PTO shaft as part # 102872 , I forgot all about the clutch facing, I'll check that out after I get the engine back, the engines out being machined and rebuilt at this time, it's the one item from my restore I felt more comfortable letting someone with the experience doing....he came highly recommended from a fellow Wheel Horse nut .

 

Here's my parts list for the PTO

 

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=toro_consumer&mn=91-10K802%2C+C-101+8-Speed+Tractor%2C+1979&dn=810118R1-18R10058-00028

 

 

dsholler - I think this may be the thread you're talking about, the Torrington # is referenced on the needle bearing but I wasn't sure if it covered my part #

 

 

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Jeff-C175

I'm pretty sure that all the PTO are the same for like... ever...

 

Same part for the stub shaft, and the outer bearing number I gave is the 'old' number, which is superseded by the 109842 number you gave.

 

What changes is the 'Bearing Race' which I call a 'sleeve'.  Engines with the 1-1/8" shaft use the 6658 and the 1" shaft uses the 6935.  This way the OD of the sleeve is fixed so the same PTO can be used for many, many models.

 

So, the bottom line answer to your original question is yes, no change for a LONG time...

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Lagersolut

I'm pretty sure that all the PTO are the same for like... ever...

 

Same part for the stub shaft, and the outer bearing number I gave is the 'old' number, which is superseded by the 109842 number you gave.

 

What changes is the 'Bearing Race' which I call a 'sleeve'.  Engines with the 1-1/8" shaft use the 6658 and the 1" shaft uses the 6935.  This way the OD of the sleeve is fixed so the same PTO can be used for many, many models.

 

So, the bottom line answer to your original question is yes, no change for a LONG time...

 

 

Thanks, I just noticed on the parts list the race 6935   "  not available " .. I'm going to think about this one , I know it seems " OK " but on the other hand I'm not sure it's good to wait and fry a race .......I'm not doing the restore to park it in a corner , I still want to use it .  decisions decisions ....lol

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Jeff-C175

Don't worry about the race, you won't fry it.  There would need to be a SERIOUSLY self-destructed needle bearing and long time running with it to damage that thing.  Even if you did somehow damage it, I'm sure that members got boxes of them laying around...

 

Just wipe out the old grease, put some fresh on your finger and spooge it between the rollers.  You really don't need a lot.  You don't want to add so much that it squeezes past the seal and gets flung up onto the clutch disc.

 

The outer bearing is sealed both sides so that you just run until it fails.  If you had one of those 'needle' grease gun adapters, you might be able to weasel that past the bearing seal and add a little if you were nervous about it but I wouldn't bother myself.

 

As ds said, to remove the PTO is trivial.  If any part is gonna 'go', it will be the outer bearing, or possibly the outer C-clip slipping out of the stub shaft groove when under tension.  Either case is an easy enough fix to not worry about now...

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JamesBe1

Just for the sake of resurrecting a old thread, it looks like it is my turn to replace my outer bearing.  I went to use my C-145 to vacuum leaves and after a couple of minutes, the outer bearing died.  It wasn't a pretty sight what with smoke and sparks coming out of the PTO center.

 

I see that it is a simple 3/4"X1-3/4" bearing.  The part number listed is 106947.  It appears to be a pretty common bearing used on lots of models.  I found somewhere on the net that someone crossed it to a Oregon 45-295, and Jeff mentions that it is also a Torrington J-2420.  That's great info to have.  This site is fantastic help with keeping my old machine running.  Luckily, I work near a bearing place, so I'll just drop by there on my lunch hour monday and hopefully, they should have one in stock.  Too bad I won't get my leaves done before the weather turns.

 

I'm kinda wondering what the general thought is on chinese bearings (should I find that to be an option).  The one that I just took out is marked as "Romania".  I don't know how that stacks up in the bearing hierarchy.

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gwest_ca

From my notes

 

Bearing Ball 109842 Replaces 31-0530, 310530, 251-351, 251351, 5196, 11080, 106947, 241100, 700496

 

Napa 7-04250

Rotary 484

Stens 230-033

Stens HD 230-037

Fafnir 204RR6

Generic 9504AB

 

Garry

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JamesBe1

Much thanx Garry!

Since it is such a common bearing, I figured that I would wander down to my local Tractor Supply and pick one up.  I'll print that out and bring it along.

j

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kitkit

Hello, is there a place where you can get the needed snap  rings to replace the outer bearing , if you order them the shipping is more than the snap ring price . thank you 

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tunahead72

Can't say for sure, but try rcpw.com, free shipping lately.

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kitkit

thank you for the info , they had them and free shipping. I got them delivered  for less than just the shipping anywhere else I looked on ebay .

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