Steering Fix - Preventative??? 300, 400 & 500 Series Tractors

[leeave96 487]

So I've been reading a goodly amount of posts regarding problems with the steering on the 300, 400 and 500 series tractors and have a few questions.

1. What are the typical problems? Are they in the steering column or steering gear or at the ball joints - where are the problems occurring.

2. What are the root causes of these steering problems?

3. How do you prevent (or minimize) these steering problems in the first place?

3. What are the various fixes for steering problems.

My fleet of Wheelhorses, though are getting long in the tooth, relatively have low hours, so I haven't encountered any steering problems - yet. But I'd like to know what to look for and how to prevent any problems from getting started or at least delaying the onset of them. This info would also be helpful when buying another tractor in the 300, 400 and 500 series.

Lastly - were the 300, 400 and 500 series tractors the only ones to suffer any steering problems vs the C-series tractors? What changed between these series tractors with regard to steering.

Just as a side note - we have a friend of the family that must be in his late 70's now and forever, he has mowed his lawn (at least an acre, may be 2 acres) with Sears Suburban tractors. He's got one he bought new, back in the 70's and one his Dad bought new prior to him buying the one of his own - which is now his 2nd tractor in his fleet. He recently told me he has a 3rd Sears Suburban - not sure of where he got it.

Reason I mention this friend and his old Sears tractors is this: 1) It's pretty cool to see him out there working a tractor with over 30 years of reliable service. 2) Though this man's tractors are "worked", he takes care of them.

We all know the strengths of the Wheelhorse tractors and there are many! However, the intent of this post and some of my other "what's wrong with Wheelhorse tractors" is to help get as much info out there so we can all learn what to expect with these fine old tractors and keep them going as long as possible. I for one hope I live to an old age (like our family friend) and in doing so, work the crap out of them and pass the fleet on to my boys. Any info pertaining to fixing/avoiding potential problems, like steering on these 300, 400 and 500 series tractors, I feel will go a long way to keeping everyone's fleet going - forever!

Thanks!!!!!

Bill

[sorekiwi 761]

The only steering problem I have had on my 520 and my 310 were the support bearing on the column coming loose and letting the column wave around.

It actually wasnt the bushing itself, it was the sheetmetal that the bushing was retained in. The hole wobbles out and lets the bushing move around.

This is my 520. This is how I fixed it:

I'm thinking that the 520 has a plastic bush there. I relpaced it with a steel housing welded to the sheetmetal, with a bronze bush inside that.

On my 310 it was the same deal, but the support bush was steel. On that I just welded the steel bush to the centre console.

I think Duke did something similar that was bolt-on, using another one of the bearings that normally live on the front of the lower steering shaft.

[JackC 616]

Speaking of wheel horse steering issues, I would add the D series to the discussion.

Many have worn Ross steering columns resulting in sloppy steering.

There is a bushing at the top of the steering column and a gear box at the bottom that both need to be serviced.

I am trying to remove the steering wheel so that I can replace the upper shaft bushing.

So far I have soaked it with PB Blaster and used a bearing splitter to try to pull the wheel up off the shaft.

No luck so far and I am close to just sawing off the top of the shaft and maybe having it welded back on later.

I do have a replacement Ross steering column and steering wheel but I hate destroying wheel horse parts that are supposed to come apart.

Maybe if wheel horse had known their tractors would last forever they would have put a little anti seize compound on during assembly so 35 years later someone could get the steering wheel off to replace the bushing.

[Duff 206]

:thumbs: Hi, Bill,

The bushing issue and weak sheet metal dash towers aside, the primary thing you can do is to keep everything well lubricated. There's a zerk on the fan gear assembly a lot of people overlook or may not have found. The bushing at the base of the shaft that supports the steering wheel is replaceable, and if it starts to wear replacing it is a good and inexpensive idea. With time the ball joints on the tie rods will wear out, and it's probably good to replace them before they get too loose and either fall off or require a lot of unnecessary turning of the rest of the steering to get the wheels to do what you want them to. All in all, these machines work well and last a long time - just stay on top of maintenance.

Duff

[Marv 845]

Jack, I had the same problem with my D200 steering wheel removal. I worked it for quite a while and finally did cut the shaft and pressed out the piece from the wheel. I had the shaft welded back together and it is good now. Anti sieze compound is the way to go on reassembly.

Marv

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

My fleet of Wheelhorses, though are getting long in the tooth, , the intent of this post and some of my other "what's wrong with Wheelhorse tractors" is to help get as much info out there so we can all learn what to expect with these fine old tractors and keep them going as long as possible. I for one hope I live to an old age (like our family friend) and in doing so, work the crap out of them and pass the fleet on to my boys. Any info pertaining to fixing/avoiding potential problems, like steering on these 300, 400 and 500 series tractors, I feel will go a long way to keeping everyone's fleet going - forever!

Thanks!!!!!

Bill

I agree with you here Bill. I think keeping these old horses alive and working is doing the right thing. I had dinner with two of my oldest guy friends this past Saturday night. They were yanking my chain about my Wheel Horses. They say you are suppose to buy a riding mower, run it till the wheels come off then drag it out in the woods and get another one. I tell them they are lazy, they need some testosterone therapy, and they need to man up and put a wrench in their hands like a real man so they will get some respect at home. Then I tell them they are poor excuses for males, and they should be made Eunuchs.

Well, after giving them the old what for, we had another beer and went home. So next Spring and Summer when they are hating life behind the wheel of their BoxStore GreenMachines, I'll be grinning from ear to ear cutting grass with the Iron Horses !

[coldone 35]

Speaking of wheel horse steering issues, I would add the D series to the discussion.

Many have worn Ross steering columns resulting in sloppy steering.

There is a bushing at the top of the steering column and a gear box at the bottom that both need to be serviced.

I am trying to remove the steering wheel so that I can replace the upper shaft bushing.

So far I have soaked it with PB Blaster and used a bearing splitter to try to pull the wheel up off the shaft.

No luck so far and I am close to just sawing off the top of the shaft and maybe having it welded back on later.

I do have a replacement Ross steering column and steering wheel but I hate destroying wheel horse parts that are supposed to come apart.

With the ross steering column, you have to be carefull when pulling the wheel. You can mushroom out the shaft and the wheel is not going to come off.

Have you tried tighten up the puller and giving the main pulling bolt a good hard hit with a hammer? This will sometimes loosen up the rust enough that it will start to come loose. Its something about the shock from the hammer blow that helps break up the bond.

Here is a link to a write up I did about redoing the ross box. I think total cost was less than $50.

[squonk 38,854]

I've had about 6 Horses with the steering shaft support broken where it bolts to the frame near the fan gear. I've seen it on Raiders, 300's. even My current C-160 has a broken one. A P.O made some little metal clamps that the hold down bolts go thru. He made it to form around the support. The steering works fine. I was going to change it out but until it gives me problems I'll leave it alone. I had an 857 that I sold and before the new owner picked it up I noticed a crack in the support. I made a clamp like on the 160 and bolted it on and showed him. I told him if it gives any trouble, stop by and I'll give him another support. I got 3 on the shelf.

[Tankman 3,515]

Been soaking for a few weeks the steering on my '85 416-8.

The steering is working so, I'm not in a great rush to break it loose. Avoid additional damage to the WH steering wheel. The wheel looks slightly bent but, you have to really look to see it.

Once loose, I'll weld a bracket in the panel like sorewiki did. Nice repair! Looks very neat too.

[JackC 616]

coldone, The steady force from the puller is not working for me. I already stripped some treads from the top of the steering column from the downward force of the center bolt of the puller onto a nut I attached to the top of the column.

The shock treatment is a good suggestion. There is a guy on eBay who sells a tool to do just that. You screw the tool onto the top of the shaft, support the steering wheel from underneath with your knees or some other means and then strike down on the shaft with the tool. That will be my next approach.

Thanks for the link on the Ross redo. Parts are no longer available from Toro but the guy you mentioned can provide parts. I bought the top bushings from him. Here is a picture of the striking tool. If anyone is looking to remove a steering wheel from a D series, I would recommend trying the striking tool first after some soaking with a penetrating oil like Kroil.

[Duff 206]

I agree with you here Bill. I think keeping these old horses alive and working is doing the right thing. I had dinner with two of my oldest guy friends this past Saturday night. They were yanking my chain about my Wheel Horses. They say you are suppose to buy a riding mower, run it till the wheels come off then drag it out in the woods and get another one. I tell them they are lazy, they need some testosterone therapy, and they need to man up and put a wrench in their hands like a real man so they will get some respect at home. Then I tell them they are poor excuses for males, and they should be made Eunuchs.

Well, after giving them the old what for, we had another beer and went home. So next Spring and Summer when they are hating life behind the wheel of their BoxStore GreenMachines, I'll be grinning from ear to ear cutting grass with the Iron Horses !

Now THAT is the funniest and most refreshing thing I've read here in a lo-o-o-o-ng time! Thanks for making my day!

Duff :ROTF:

[Racinbob 10,272]

Knocking the box store green machines?? They aren't all that bad. I GAVE the one I bought during a brain relapse to my son-in-law. He was happy so I guess they make good gifts. I did tell him he's getting what he paid for.

[tormater 12]

Hi all, I see this is a older post but I will give you my 2 cents anyways, I recently restored a 416H that had a lot of play in the steering and what I found was that block that holds the 2 steering shafts were oblonged meaning not round anymore, so I purchase 2= 3/4" bronze bushings on ebay and had my family's machine shop ream out the holes to .912 I think it was and press in the bushings, it is about as good as new now! I realize not everyone has a machine shop that would be benifisial to do the work on hourly labor but for me it paid off, and this was the issue on my tractor for sure! The hole was wore from side to side which makes more than sense since that is way way the shaft is under pressure when ya turn the steering wheel with the gears. One thing I didn't like on mine however was the only thing to keep the shaft tight in that block was a cotter pin????? My friends 416H has a nice castle nut on threads with the pin through the nut which looks a lot better to me!!!!!! When did Toro change this????? There is no way my shafts ever had threads on it! I wasn't worn that much it measured real close to the 3/4", I liked the way my friends is a lot better and it would keep it tighter.

[Don1977 604]

Hi all, I see this is a older post but I will give you my 2 cents anyways, I recently restored a 416H that had a lot of play in the steering and what I found was that block that holds the 2 steering shafts were oblonged meaning not round anymore, so I purchase 2= 3/4" bronze bushings on ebay and had my family's machine shop ream out the holes to .912 I think it was and press in the bushings, it is about as good as new now! I realize not everyone has a machine shop that would be benifisial to do the work on hourly labor but for me it paid off, and this was the issue on my tractor for sure! The hole was wore from side to side which makes more than sense since that is way way the shaft is under pressure when ya turn the steering wheel with the gears. One thing I didn't like on mine however was the only thing to keep the shaft tight in that block was a cotter pin????? My friends 416H has a nice castle nut on threads with the pin through the nut which looks a lot better to me!!!!!! When did Toro change this????? There is no way my shafts ever had threads on it! I wasn't worn that much it measured real close to the 3/4", I liked the way my friends is a lot better and it would keep it tighter.

​I've look through the drawing and 1993 is the first model I have seen the nut in place of the carter pin. I bought a new steering shaft and column about that time for my C-120 and got that type.  I think Toro has some of their drawing wrong because some of models later then 1993 don't show the nut, unless they change it back.

[Chevydave 25]

Hi, Bill,

 

The bushing issue and weak sheet metal dash towers aside, the primary thing you can do is to keep everything well lubricated. There's a zerk on the fan gear assembly a lot of people overlook or may not have found. The bushing at the base of the shaft that supports the steering wheel is replaceable, and if it starts to wear replacing it is a good and inexpensive idea. With time the ball joints on the tie rods will wear out, and it's probably good to replace them before they get too loose and either fall off or require a lot of unnecessary turning of the rest of the steering to get the wheels to do what you want them to. All in all, these machines work well and last a long time - just stay on top of maintenance.

 

Duff

​Wow, now you have me worried, do you have a photo or a diagram that shows the location of this zerk. My tractor is a '89 416-8. I grease regularly but did not know there was a zerk there!

[Callen 64]

Turn your steering wheel all the way to the right, It's right beside the fan gear and has a 45 serk that faces forward. You can get to it through the opening between the battery and frame where you see the fan gear. You may have to remove some dried grease to find it.

[oliver2-44 8,837]

On my 312=8 the steel bushing was very loose in the dash tower. I don't have anything to weld thin sheet metal like was done in the picture above. So I cleaned everything to bright metal and JB welded it in place. I built up a nice filletof JB weld from the bottom. Then after that dried I built up a smooth fillet on the top side on the outside of the bushing to help lock it in place. 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

Resurrecting an old thread.  My 416-8 pops when getting to full lock.  What's happening is this:  As the gear on the column (item 25 below), it pushes the quadrant (item 15) forward which means the gears pop out of one another.  What the PO was told by Mueller Motors in Desoto, Missouri, an old Wheel Horse dealer who still handles Toro, was to shim the flange (item 12) somehow to force the rod of item 15 back to keep contact with the column gear, (item 25).  I'm not sure how to do that, but I can see the quadrant (item 15) popping off the column gears when it gets to a certain point in the turn.

[cleat 4,936]

Wrong..

You add shim washers #16 & 17 until the play is gone without the gears binding.

 

First though make sure the steering shaft is being held down and has no up and down play by adjusting the collar #26 and grip ring #36.

 

[squonk 38,854]

And make sure #19 isn't busted or wallowed out. That's what I always find.

[cleat 4,936]

I have rebuilt a couple of those blocks.

 

I drill out the holes and install bushings then drill those for grease passages to work with the grease fittings.

 

This style of steering can get tightened up quite nicely. Much easier than the gear reduction steering, but that is another story.

 

 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

3 hours ago, cleat said:

Wrong..

You add shim washers #16 & 17 until the play is gone without the gears binding.

 

First though make sure the steering shaft is being held down and has no up and down play by adjusting the collar #26 and grip ring #36.

 

More than likely the PO misunderstood and thought they were talking about shimming the rod at item 12 end instead of the other end.  I couldn't figure out how shimming the forward end will help as it probably would have made it worse.

[TDF5G 2,051]

Shimmed up my B-80 not long ago.  You put the shims on the back side of the support, #19.  See this thread for pics.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by TDF5G

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

1 hour ago, TDF5G said:

Shimmed up my B-80 not long ago.  You put the shims on the back side of the support, #19.  See this thread for pics.

 

According to the IPL, it says to see section 18 for adjustment with these shims.  Anyone have that SM or a link?  Thanks.

[dcrage 621]

Duke (Horse Fixer) had several pages (with accompanying drawings) on the use of these shims, which he did use as I remember, during the renovation of the 520-H he made into his current(?) Snow Chucker -- Have no idea what that string was called -- Hopefully someone else can steer this conversation to that article