Horsepower.

[mailman 1]

My brother and I are at odds with each other.

I stated to him that I thought going from 8 hp to 10 hp is a bigger jump then going from 10 hp to 12 hp. He said it should be about the same in term of ratios. 2 hp is 2 hp!

I figured that going from a "small block" to a "big block" is a greater jump in power then going from equal blocks.

Can anyone say for certain if this is true?

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,422]

I think your probably right Eric. I have no scientific info to back me up but my gut says yer right.

Mike..........

[HorseFixer 2,012]

I would say that 8 to 10 in terms of tractor HP like in useing a snowthrower would be a greater performance. You have my vote!

Duke

[BairleaFarm 339]

2hp is 2 hp anyway you look at it. The differeing factor would be the torque I think.

[Duff 206]

Eric, I'm with you on this one. I'm also thinking it's probably relative to the application. 2 hp is 2 hp, indeed, but if a piece of equipment was engineered for, say, 2 hp and you throw a 4 hp engine on it, you've doubled the amount of work it can do (unless it's a Crapsman and it self destructs because it can't handle the extra power .) Now, take an 8 hp tractor and throw 10 hp on it, and you've gained 25% more power. Take a 10 hp tractor and throw a 12 hp motor on it, and you've only gained 20%. 12 up to 14 only gains 17%, and so it goes. What the incremental hp increase may give, though, is the difference between comfortably handling say a 36" mower deck vs. a 48" deck, etc.

Anyone else following my logic, or is the ozone from the wicked thunderstorm that just passed through here scrambling my brain cells?

Duff B)

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

Yep, you are correct, not much difference if your car makes 345 hp or 347, probably never ever feel that one.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Depends entirely on WHICH 10HP engine you're talking about. The 10HP Kohler K-241 is actually rated at 10.5 horsepower!!!!!!

[bambooheels 0]

B) im probably going to tick some people off here, but 2 hp is not 2 hp. especially with todays engines, lets compare a 23hp twin cylinder to a 23 hp single cylinder on zero turn mowers. do you really think they both can do the same thing, i know for a fact that they cannot. compare a 8 hp horizontal B&S to an 8 hp kohler, not the same. every engine is differnt every application is differnt. equal hp is not always equal actual hp. especially on these wheel horses the older ones. a 7hp kohler isnt much differn then an 8. a 10 not much differnt then a 12, the engine power might be differnt but what te tractor can do with it really doesnt change. :horseplay: i know i just started some bad stuff

[BairleaFarm 339]

Horse power is a set # if 2 engines are rated correctly and both have 20hp then they both have 20hp. The differences you are noticing is torque. Example. My truck have 450rwhp and my brothers truck has 450rwhp. Which truck pulls harder?? His. Ive got a v8 and hes got 6 in a row. His torque is more than double mine only at 825ftlbs. I see what your are saying Duff and it makes sense.

compare a 8 hp horizontal B&S to an 8 hp kohler,

if they both actully have 8 hp then they both are 8 hp any way you look at it.

[Nick 13]

In the original comparison of a Kohler K series engine 8 to 10 then 10 to 12 it might well be true that you will notice change more from the 8 up. As Dale said some engines might be rated 10hp but the factory knows they are closer to 10.5 or even more. Also might depend on the conditon of the engine.

It also gets hard to compare engines when as David mentions torque can vary a lot between brands and designs. When replacing a 20hp Onan with a new Kohler overhead valve twin you need to use at least a 23hp model to get near the same torque output of the old opposed twin Onan. The 23hp kohler might still use less fuel though. B)

[mailman 1]

Well, just to clarify, my brother and I were talking strictly Kohler cast iron engines. He's a Cub fan and I'm....well. ya know. So we are talking apples and apples (as far as kohlers). We get into friendly fights about whos tractor would out pull , out work, out perform, etc.

We both know that his cubs and my horses will do what we want them to. We just like the competition part.

[Nick 13]

To prove that red paint adds at least 10% more power you will have to try a dyno. http://www.crsdynoservice.com/

[Duff 206]

Well, just to clarify, my brother and I were talking strictly Kohler cast iron engines. He's a Cub fan and I'm....well. ya know. So we are talking apples and apples (as far as kohlers). We get into friendly fights about whos tractor would out pull , out work, out perform, etc.

We both know that his cubs and my horses will do what we want them to. We just like the competition part.

Your brother sounds like a cool guy. Now get him to buy a Wheel Horse and the rest, as they say, will become history!

Duff :whistle:

[mailman 1]

Hey DUFF, I am THIS close to him getting one. The kicker is our dad had a Cub Cadet 122. It was , and still is a worker. I love my dad, but....

That said, my son will be a horse fan. Trust me.

[Curmudgeon 28]

im probably going to tick some people off here, but 2 hp is not 2 hp. especially with todays engines, lets compare a 23hp twin cylinder to a 23 hp single cylinder on zero turn mowers. do you really think they both can do the same thing, i know for a fact that they cannot. compare a 8 hp horizontal B&S to an 8 hp kohler, not the same. every engine is differnt every application is differnt. equal hp is not always equal actual hp. especially on these wheel horses the older ones. a 7hp kohler isnt much differn then an 8. a 10 not much differnt then a 12, the engine power might be differnt but what te tractor can do with it really doesnt change. :horseplay: i know i just started some bad stuff

Horsepower is a computed term. I could look it up, but basically, it's torque times RPM. Torque is all that's "measured" horsepower is computed.

As for the differences between todays and yesterdays engines, they both made the computed numbers, but the engines of yesterday were measured at the speeds they run. Today's engine might very well make the horsepower, but it could be at 4200+ RPM, a number we never see. It HAS the horsepower, just not in a "usable" range.

My theory at least, such as it is.

[kpinnc 10,649]

As for the differences between todays and yesterdays engines, they both made the computed numbers, but the engines of yesterday were measured at the speeds they run. Today's engine might very well make the horsepower, but it could be at 4200+ RPM, a number we never see. It HAS the horsepower, just not in a "usable" range.

I agree Dale. Most newer engines (in a similar fashion as "rice burner" motorcycle engines ) compensate for lower torque with higher operating RPM. Older cast iron engines with big and heavy flywheels produce much more torque, even at lower RPM.

Plus the cast iron vs. aluminum block thingy comes into play as well... Of course, that's a whole different discussion.

Kevin

[bluetuna08 0]

theres no replacement for displacemtn!!! B)

[Curmudgeon 28]

theres no replacement for displacemtn!!!

Yup, that is the old wives tale. Doesn't always hold true though. I can remember when Harley had to get the AMA to ban certain types of rice burners from flat tracks because Harley's displacement simply couldn't compete with Japanese technology. Gee, we're still seeing that in the automotive industry... but again, that's another story!

[bambooheels 0]

Dale, i think you pretty much just said what i was trying to say, only you said it in a more ducated way. thank you and much nicer. SIMPLY PUT.... THOSE CRAPPY newer engine might be rated at such high HP, however you will never see one work to that capability furthermore, take any modern day aluminum block 7-12 hp engine run her a full capability and i dont care how well you take care of it, she will soon enuff BLOW. NEW STUFF IS JUNK, i own a landscaping business, take even a briggs 8hp horizontal blower engine and compare to todays honda's, and even briggs. the older engine will last longer, regardless.

just my 2 cents. regardless of horsepower, todays engines cannot compete to yesterdays B)

[bluetuna08 0]

I think that if one compares horsepower @ a specific rpm between large and small displacement engines you will find that small engines must rev much higher to produce the same horsepower as a "large" displacement engines.

I think the large displacement engine would get the nod from me.

PS...I have seen people put turbochargers on B&S engines and it is pretty wicked. B)

[Curmudgeon 28]

Generally speaking, more cubes can mean more torque, but there are so many exceptions to that rule we could have a field day posting them all! LOL

[WH_Hobie 1]

I would definitely say 8 to 10 would be a bigger difference than 10 to 12.

But I've had the experience of a 10hp dragging my 12hp backwards -- and my tractor even weighed more!

[BPjunk 184]

With the increase in flywheel weight and cubic inches a jump from 8 to 10 horse power will be felt .... in the seat of the pants a lot more then a 10 to 12 increase when using a Kohler engine.

Now ifn's ya' take the 8hp and shave the head, port out the intake and exhaust, bolt on a larger carburetor and build a good exhaust stack ...... then ask your brother ifn's he wants to go for a ride!

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Hey Bill, that sounds like of them thar instances when less could be more!

[linen beige 14]

Displacement is meaningless without compression. A large bore engine will not produce the same power as a smaller bore of the same stroke, head clearance, etc., because the larger bore yields less compression. 8 hp to 10 hp IS a 25% jump and 10hp to 12 hp IS only a 20% jump, no matter how you look at it. It may only be 2hp, but is a much larger PERCENTAGE of the original power. An increase of 2hp is not much when you get up into the larger engines, but in the small category 2hp can be significant. An increase of 25% will be felt more than one of 20% regardless of the other #s. And let's not forget GEAR RATIOS!