Tech H60 has me Stumped... Please help

[grnlark 479]

I have a Techy H60 with 12 volt electric start. I had it running about a week or so ago but was having issues with the starter - or so I thought. The previous owner said the starter would just click sometimes and you had to lightly tap it with a hammer to make it spin. Sure enough, it worked - once or twice, then it would just click and give me the middle finger. So, I took the starter all apart - all the while assuming there was something wrong with the starter. I cleaned everything and reassembled it. Lo and behold, the started didn't even click after that. So much for my efforts there Needless to say I bought a new (used) starter and installed it. The new starter makes a very laborous single rotation of the engine then stops.....and another laborous rotation and stops....yadda. yadda, yadda. On occassion during the "stopping period" the selenoid makes a whining buzzing noise. I figured that's not a great sign. But HERES THE KICKER - if I pop out the spark plug and turn the key, the motor spins 100 miles an hour like its supposed to as does the starter - with no noise out of the selenoid. It's clearly getting fuel because the plug is soaked, and I checked for spark and thats there too. I even shot starter fluid directly into the spark plug hole hoping to just get it to fire to no avail - because when I put the plug back in, the best I get out of it is a single slow laborous single rotation of the motor. It almost seems like the motor has too much compression for the starter to handle. I don't know - I'm at a loss here. And I'm now also wondering if the original starter was fine before I took it apart. Regardless, can anyone offer me some thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Matt

[SousaKerry 500]

Sounds like maybe the Automatic Compression Release may not be working. I know on a kohler it is actually part of the way the cam is ground but I am not sure on a Techy. Do you have a rope starter for it can you turn it over tht way to get it started? Also try a different battery, the one on my 655 takes damn near a full charge to turn over most of the time if it is cold they do turn over much faster when warmed up. Also check the electrical connections on your start switch, you can always jump the starter directly from a battery to test if you are loosing current in the wireing.

[wheelhorse656 20]

have you taken the new one apart yet? I would try that check the brushes and windings for damage. and clean it out with compressed air.and oil the front and rear bearings. I usually while i have them apart i drill a very small hole in the back plate for the starter so i can oil it without having to take it apart. I found when brushes are rusty or the armature is rusty or dirty they do what you have described. also they do this when the springs that push the brushes get week or the brushes are worn out. check for this if you already have not.

-Jordan

[grnlark 479]

have you taken the new one apart yet? I would try that check the brushes and windings for damage. and clean it out with compressed air.and oil the front and rear bearings. I usually while i have them apart i drill a very small hole in the back plate for the starter so i can oil it without having to take it apart. I found when brushes are rusty or the armature is rusty or dirty they do what you have described. also they do this when the springs that push the brushes get week or the brushes are worn out. check for this if you already have not.

-Jordan

But with the plug out the motor spins perfectly as it should when I turn the key, which leads me to believe its not a starter issue at all.

Sounds like maybe the Automatic Compression Release may not be working. I know on a kohler it is actually part of the way the cam is ground but I am not sure on a Techy. Do you have a rope starter for it can you turn it over tht way to get it started? Also try a different battery, the one on my 655 takes damn near a full charge to turn over most of the time if it is cold they do turn over much faster when warmed up. Also check the electrical connections on your start switch, you can always jump the starter directly from a battery to test if you are loosing current in the wireing.

I was wondering if these motors have a compression release..... I have no idea. Hopefully someone here does.

No rope start on the motor. In fact the blower cover doesn't even have the provisions for one. I'd have to swap blower covers to add a recoil.

[wheelhorse656 20]

Sounds like maybe the Automatic Compression Release may not be working. I know on a kohler it is actually part of the way the cam is ground but I am not sure on a Techy. Do you have a rope starter for it can you turn it over tht way to get it started? Also try a different battery, the one on my 655 takes damn near a full charge to turn over most of the time if it is cold they do turn over much faster when warmed up. Also check the electrical connections on your start switch, you can always jump the starter directly from a battery to test if you are loosing current in the wireing.

H60 and HH60 dont have Automatic Compression Release. ^hp shouldent be that hard to start i have 4 or 5 and start on 1 pull and it doesent take much either,

[wheelhorse656 20]

have you taken the new one apart yet? I would try that check the brushes and windings for damage. and clean it out with compressed air.and oil the front and rear bearings. I usually while i have them apart i drill a very small hole in the back plate for the starter so i can oil it without having to take it apart. I found when brushes are rusty or the armature is rusty or dirty they do what you have described. also they do this when the springs that push the brushes get week or the brushes are worn out. check for this if you already have not.

-Jordan

But with the plug out the motor spins perfectly as it should when I turn the key, which leads me to believe its not a starter issue at all.

Sounds like maybe the Automatic Compression Release may not be working. I know on a kohler it is actually part of the way the cam is ground but I am not sure on a Techy. Do you have a rope starter for it can you turn it over tht way to get it started? Also try a different battery, the one on my 655 takes damn near a full charge to turn over most of the time if it is cold they do turn over much faster when warmed up. Also check the electrical connections on your start switch, you can always jump the starter directly from a battery to test if you are loosing current in the wireing.

I was wondering if these motors have a compression release..... I have no idea. Hopefully someone here does.

No rope start on the motor. In fact the blower cover doesn't even have the provisions for one. I'd have to swap blower covers to add a recoil.

thier isent much strain on the starter with out compresion. Try taking the shroud off and spining the flywheel bye hand if its really hard somthing might be wrong with the engine. i had a few that did this to me and i found alot of times they will do just what you said not turn over properly unless you take out the plug if they are not clean and or the brushes are not making good contact.

[grnlark 479]

Well, I just removed the battery that was on it and hooked up a jumper box to it - not the handheld, my good one for the cars that rolls. On 12V boost it did crank a little faster and started running..........until the starter fluid burned off - like a moron I forgot to turn the fuel petcock on. Needless to say thereafter, it cranked a little faster, but still laborous and only about 1 revolution at a clip and I couldn't get it to start again. I didn't really want to sit there and continue to put undue stress on the starter. I'm pretty positive the motor is fine because when it does run - like even just now - its smooth, quiet and doesn't skip a beat. This is just odd.....

[pfrederi 17,147]

ACR didn't come along on Tecumsehs until the mid 80s. We replaced the H60 on my L107 with a Later model HH70 to get compression release to make it easier for my Father to start it (he was way to frugal to have electric start). After I inherited it I picked up a used Tecumseh starter (about 10 years ago) and put it on (no charging system just the starter. I have to recharge the battery only ever 3 months or so and she get lots of starts.

In you case I would put a volt meter on during thet cranking and see how low the voltage drops. Anything below 9 volts mean teh battery is to old/small or the starter motor is drawing too much current.

A definitive test on the. starter would be if you had a heavy duty amp meter that could test the current draw. Since most of us don't have that you can approximate it with a volt meter (in your multimeter). Put the negative lead on the negative battery post, put the positive lead on the the starter motor frame. Crank the motor with spark plug wire removed. Voltage should not exceed 0.1 volts. If it does either your wires are bad, undersized or the starter motor is at fault. What guage are your wires are the terminals clean???

[illinilefttackle 399]

I had much the same problem with an h70 I was putting in restored 656. I removed the head -cleaned out a ton of carbon

then replaced the starter

then cleaned all my grounds, both on engine, frame, and battery & set the timing-

and that solved the problem-

Good Luck-Al

[squonk 38,917]

Check your battery cables too and also your solenoid contacts may be getting worn also.

[546cowboy 301]

Over the years I have had my share with the same problem. Make sure the ground wire from the battery goes to an engine mount bolt and the cables should be heavy enough 4ga. prefered not a wire but a cable. As stated above check the battery voltage while cranking, below 9 volts get a new battery. Personally I always buy Wal-Mart batteries with the 350 CA as the cheaper ones usually only last a year and there is less than $5 difference between the cheapie and the better one.

If all that is OK pull the starter, clamp it in a vice and hook a good battery to it, it should spin very fast. I have an amp guage that you just hold against the battery cable. You should be able to get one at an auto parts store pretty cheap. It will tell you exacty how many amps it takes to get the starter going.

[grnlark 479]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I think I'm going to plan on re-wiring the whole starter system from the keyswitch outwards, which really only consists of about 6 or 7 wires total. I'll probably replace the battery cables too. I would like to maybe replace the key ignition switch too. I suspected from day 1 that it's probably not original and looks like someone had a wiring party once before... I'll snap a few pics later and see if you guys have any suggestions as far as a replacement switch.

[grnlark 479]

Part II of this saga is electrical, so I continued it in the elctrical section. Here's the link to the continuation:

Thanks,

Matt

[Docwheelhorse 2,560]

• Step 1) Remove Tecumseh...
  
• Step 2) Walk to dumpster....
  
• Step 3) toss in offending lump of alluminum
  
• Step 4) replace with Briggs or Kohler or Honda and be on your merry way.
  

Matt it sure sounds like you either have a bad ground or bad ground strap---I have seem the cables corrode inside the connectors and won't "flow" enough power. Another thought is the timing.... I once had a Tecumseh that ran fine once started but would buck and wouldn't crank and started very hard----then I found a partially sheared flywheel key that essentially advanced the timing to the point that the plug would fire WAY before top dead center and stop the starter. I would check that too...... Good Luck

[Rooster 191]

--then I found a partially sheared flywheel key that essentially advanced the timing to the point that the plug would fire WAY before top dead center and stop the starter. I would check that too...... Good Luck

That is a common ailment...I would start here!

[Kelly 1,028]

Is that the key switch that the batt. cables hook to? and all the cranking power has to run though the switch, if so it may be bad contacts in the switch, try jumping power right to the starter see if it cranks faster.

[grnlark 479]

Is that the key switch that the batt. cables hook to? and all the cranking power has to run though the switch, if so it may be bad contacts in the switch, try jumping power right to the starter see if it cranks faster.

Thats a great idea...

[grnlark 479]

I posted this in the electrical section too....

It turns out the problem was bad wires! I decided I was just going to rewire everything. The wires that were there were pretty beat and it only made sense that they could have been corroded even within the sheath. The only challenge I had was removing the old screws out of the fuse board. Of course three of the four screws broke off in the board. So, I had to drill them out and make new poles, which actually are better IMO than they were originally. I didn't change the battery cables yet but definitely will.

It still doesn't shut off though.... Not sure if thats a switch issue or not. Needless to say, I have a new switch on it's way. But at least when I turn the key now it cranks fast and starts.

[wheelhorse656 20]

Glad you found out your problem