Winter's coming .... BRRRRR!

[Dresden Guy 24]

I have seen great workshops that the Red Sqaure members have shown in pictures, and I drool , but my question is: What is the best way to heat my 16" X 20' barn, so as to be safe when working on engines, etc. (e.g. - gas fumes).

I am thinking of some sort of electric/radiant heater overhead, but you tell me. I have 8' walls and a gambrel roof which is 16' at the apex.

Give me your thoughts how you heat your shops, safely. I would like type and brand name, BTUs and supplier, if possible.

Thanks

Dresden Guy

[sgtsampay 117]

Hello. I'm also in the same boat, as I'm building a new workshop for myself in a couple of weeks. Its not going to be huge, but it will be a 10x14 with a front ramp so I can drive stuff up and into it. Also, it will have storage place of sorts in the top.

Anyway, I plan on heating it with my on the side of the road find, 30k BTU Kerosense tower heater. I have ran it and it seems like it very clean burning. The only time I can smell it smoking is when I first start it and give it to much air. Also, when you turn it down very low, it will start smoking as well. Last year, I tried electric radiant heaters as well as propane salemander.(A cheap $120 version from TSC and it was 50k-75kBTUs) The propane tank forze on me several times, causing the heater to stop working (no really?) and the electric heaters never really heated much but the air directly around them. Also, when using the propane, I would keep the garage door cracked about a foot off the ground and after one hour of so working in there, i would still get a bad headache and be forced to go outside. I would also get very teary eyes as well.

I though about getting a small wood stove, but the cost of it and the danger of an open flame is making this option a last resort.

Overall I would try and use a Kerosene heater for your workshop as well, since they are cheap to run and seem to run pretty clean. Now, whatever route you go, please let us know!

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 132]

May I ask what you're budget is on the heating project? That will help narrow the options.

I personally like hot water radiant floor heating. It works great for areas with high ceilings and is efficient but would be more expensive to retrofit to a building with an existing cement floor.

[mr.pipes 4]

May I ask what you're budget is on the heating project? That will help narrow the options.

I personally like hot water radiant floor heating. It works great for areas with high ceilings and is efficient but would be more expensive to retrofit to a building with an existing cement floor.

Hot water radiant floors get my vote too. The warm concrete floor and tractors would make for a very comfortable work environment.

Obviously your budget will dictate what you can do.

Other info that will help.

What are your fuel options?

What type of floor do you have now?

How often and how much time you will be working in there?

Hot water radiant will need to be on all the time as it will take a long time to heat up the slab.

There are electric mats that can be embedded in thin-set and less invasive if you already have a poured floor.

Infrared heaters or a Modine type unit will be less expensive.

I have seen some DIY solar hot air heaters on Youtube that would be cheap if you work there during the day.

All depends on $$$ and how warm you want to be.

[Indy w h 4]

I'd say install a Central boiler hot water system I use 1 to heat my house with. All the mess of the wood and ash is outside !! My system is 250,000 BTU with the multiple zone valves ( to heat your house , shop and your neighbors place ). All from the same boiler !!

Indy

[steelman 250]

I've thought about a boiler like that as I have an unlimited wood supply. 250,000 sounds huge. What does something like that cost to set up?

[smoreau 658]

Hello. I'm also in the same boat, as I'm building a new workshop for myself in a couple of weeks. Its not going to be huge, but it will be a 10x14 with a front ramp so I can drive stuff up and into it. Also, it will have storage place of sorts in the top.

Anyway, I plan on heating it with my on the side of the road find, 30k BTU Kerosense tower heater. I have ran it and it seems like it very clean burning. The only time I can smell it smoking is when I first start it and give it to much air. Also, when you turn it down very low, it will start smoking as well. Last year, I tried electric radiant heaters as well as propane salemander.(A cheap $120 version from TSC and it was 50k-75kBTUs) The propane tank forze on me several times, causing the heater to stop working (no really?) and the electric heaters never really heated much but the air directly around them. Also, when using the propane, I would keep the garage door cracked about a foot off the ground and after one hour of so working in there, i would still get a bad headache and be forced to go outside. I would also get very teary eyes as well.

I though about getting a small wood stove, but the cost of it and the danger of an open flame is making this option a last resort.

Overall I would try and use a Kerosene heater for your workshop as well, since they are cheap to run and seem to run pretty clean. Now, whatever route you go, please let us know!

With a 10x14 room I would go with a eadonpure or duraflame electric radiant heater like there selling at all the box stores. takes up very little room and no fumes. I have 2 in my house and love both of them.

[Jim_M 178]

Well, since it's a barn that you only want to work in occasionally, I would probably buy a small forced air electric heater.

I have a hanging electric infra red heater that I picked up at Lowe's a few years ago that works great if you're right underneath it. It was pretty cheap, not very big and has lights built in it too. Sometimes I'll turn it on while I'm waiting for the big heater to heat up.

[jdog_kustoms 82]

i have a mobile home hot air furnace that uses diesel or heating oil to heat my garage and for your size garage if would run u out my garage is 36 by 24 and i dont have it insulated and air blows threw it and i can turn the heater on 1 hour before i go out and when im out there im working in jeans and a long sleve shirt and i can heat my hole garage for 3 days one i 5 gallon diesel tank

[Indy w h 4]

I've thought about a boiler like that as I have an unlimited wood supply. 250,000 sounds huge. What does something like that cost to set up?

Well mine is going on 6 years old and at the time cost me $6100 that's everything It paid for it's self in 2 years !! I was heating the house with fuel oil and it was only $4 a gallon

I wouldn't heat any other way.

Indy

[CasualObserver 3,406]

I've moved and don't have this anymore, but in my last garage/shop (26x22) I installed this.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_595_595

Worked very well in my insulated area. As you can see I am in Minnesota, and I could easily work in the garage in the winter months with just jeans and a sweatshirt with this on low. (Still wore my insulated hunting boots though... floor still got damn cold.) I didn't leave it on... (didn't want to pay that electric bill!) I would flip it on when I got home at 6, and by the time supper was over and the kids in bed the garage was nice and toasty. Never had a problem with it in the four years I had it. Have also seen it available at many farm/home stores if you don't have a Northern Tool near you. I have a capped gas outlet and wiring available in the new garage... so the new one will likely be gas....(when I get around to it.)

[Dresden Guy 24]

All great ideas!!! ....... but, my fear is that if I close the doors of the barn, and heat with anything with an open flame, i.e. - propane, NG furnace, kerosene, etc. - don't I run the risk of gasoline fumes igniting if I'm removing carburetors and/or gas tanks.

I am thinking about the risk of water heaters that heat with an open flame are not supposed to be in an confined area where any gasoline/flammable fumes are present.

I would assume that all gasoline related repairs, need to be done outdoors, and then brought indoors after the fume hazard dissapates...... am I right?

BTW, my barn has a 2" X 8" X 20' T&G floor, and I have not currently added a loft , but may do so later.

I have NG and 110V/220V available for energy sources. By living in town, I can't have an outside wood furnace/boiler, but that would be my choice if I could.

On sunny days I will get a real benefit from my skylight ...... I have a 48"W X 19'L ( /\ ) clear plexiglas skylight installed the entire length of the roof peak. It gives an awesome amount of light and a lot of heat, if the sun is out .

Since my wife and I have a Bed & Breakfast, I do almost all my WH tinkering during the daytime. I seldom have evenings available since we serve dessert at 8:30PM every night ..... we have nearly a 1,000 guests a year.

Thanks again guys, I would like to hear more innovative workshop heating ideas.

[wh-jason 32]

i got a furnace out of a mobile home that was being torn down. this works great for a shop because it uses air from outside for the burner and there is no open flame exposed into the shop area. i keep it set at 50 all winter and when i go out there to work i turn it up to 65 so i work in a tshirt all winter. and the best part it was free. check around at some trailer parks most of them tear down a couple trailer every year.

[HorseFixer 2,012]

BTW, my barn has a 2" X 8" X 20' T&G floor, and I have not currently added a loft , but may do so later.

On sunny days I will get a real benefit from my skylight ...... I have a 48"W X 19'L ( /\ ) clear plexiglas skylight installed the entire length of the roof peak. It gives an awesome amount of light and a lot of heat, if the sun is out .

Since my wife and I have a Bed & Breakfast, I do almost all my WH tinkering during the daytime. I seldom have evenings available since we serve dessert at 8:30PM every night ..... we have nearly a 1,000 guests a year.

Thanks again guys, I would like to hear more innovative workshop heating ideas.

Yeah? on that skylight youll get heat loss out the Wazoo too. Along with a possible leak one day. Less penetrations in a roof the better. Well I have not heard these questions asked yet? Like.....

1) Ceiling, Wall, Floor Construction and insulation values.

2) Barn Oreintation, Roof Color, Ventlation, How tights the structure?

3) Windows, Doors types and sizes.

4) Ceiling Height Roof Pitch, Location Nearest Town.. <<

I would think before you purchased a piece of equipment you would have a

Manual J Heat Loss & Load Calculation done on the structure, in order to determine how much heat would be needed, so the proper equipment could be purchased and see what type would be pactical for your application. Or you could just Wing It like eveyone else does and put in something in and try things till it works and still have an Inefficient system that wastes fuel. Again I cant make reccomendations without knowing these things but being its a Barn I would bet your money would be best spent tightening the structure up so less heat is needed less heat = Lower Cost for Equipment and less monthly bills.

~Duke :thanks:

[Martin 2,130]

Yeah? on that skylight youll get heat loss out the Wazoo too.

[can whlvr 991]

i use a wood stove,i burn all my constuction waste and skids,trees that i need to remove,and i can burn my dirty rags so they dont spontaniously combust as my neighbour had happen,ive used this for many years and when i am doing gasoline services i open a door and use a fan,i can do this because the wood heat is cheap,i used to use kerosene,i have propane heaters,240volt electric but if you use your shop alot like i do its too much to heat,i try to use free wood as to keep the costs down,i live in canada and it gets cold here for a long time and heating fuels are more costly here ,i agree to insulate and seal very well,i have a friend that has a 70 x70 shop with spray foam insulation and he can heat it for 750 a season,thtas heated all the time and it must be 16 feet tall,they even insulated under the concrete floor and also did heated floor,i think when you do that you need to heat all the time as it takes a while to heat up from dead cold.

[HorseFixer 2,012]

i agree with you 100%

Well Martin ya should, being Im a 30 year Mechanical HVAC Contractor! Then 20 years ago I went and got a real Job!

~Duke :banghead:

[shorts 182]

I have to agree with Duke, the heat calculation is the place to start, tighten up the building and take advantage of the cheapest energy source available.

My 32 x 32 shop exceedes code for insulating in new homes and I heat it with a NG radiant tube heater suspended from the ceiling, I keep the thermostat set @ 45 and it takes about 15 minuites to bring it up to shirtsleeve temps.

In retrospect, if I were to build another shop, I think that radiant heat in the floor would be my first choice but it has to be planed for before construction begins, it all starts with an insulated foundation/slab and tubing in place before the concrete.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,120]

I would go waste oil heating.

[Martin 2,130]

In retrospect, if I were to build another shop, I think tha radiant heat in the floor would be my first choice but it has to bne planed for befor construction begins, it all starts with an insulated foundation/slab and tubing in place before the concrete.

yep, thats the only regret i have is not doing the floor heat. concreter tried to talk me into it but i just couldnt stretch the budget that far at the time. will be a different story next time around.

[can whlvr 991]

im totally on board with in floor heating,i come from a furnace installer family so im familular with these systems,the guy i worked for put it in his house,its a special water heater that heats the water,goes to an air handler and then into a ducted system so you can have air conditioning and air flow which means you can clean the air,its a great system,he has heated floors in the baths and front entrance,but its very pricy and when a budget has to rule,its expensive,so back to a well built stucture to conserve energy

[shorts 182]

After having the overhead radiant in the garage and liking the heat, we budgeted for an insulated basement and basement floor with 1 linear foot of 1/2'' tubing for every square foot of floor, all the loops are at or under 330 feet for maximum performance. The radiant is not hooked up in the house at this time due to the deal that I got on a complete forced air HVAC system, but as energy costs continue to rise I will probably go ahead and install tubing and reflectors under the subfloor and hook up the rest of the system for more comfortable and efficient heat in the near future.

[jimbotelho 1]

I agree with most post replies but first as the duke said have it looked at for the proper calcuations also keep in mind hot water systems are good but the system should have glycol added in case of a power failure .My opinion if $ is not an issue invest in a small hot water boiler with a couple of hanging unit heaters and you will be good to go just my opinion Big Jim :thumbs2:

[HorseFixer 2,012]

My reasoning for having a load calculation performed is to also get equipment to fit the bill. Equipment comes in usually 25K 50K 75K or maybe 20K 40K 60K. As you can see these heaters are in 20K to 25K jump in sizes. The size needed is based on an indoor temp say 72 deg and a design outdoor temp of say 5 deg which is what it is here in S/W Michigan. Now if the temp dips down to say 10 below 0 then I may only be able to maintain a 65 deg indoor temp. The closer you can get to what makes you comfortable in this case your shop and still perform the work that you want to do with the lowest amount of BTU's to do it the better off you are on the operating costs. Thats where the rubber meets the road!! The little woman See's a BIG INCREASE in the utility bill and ya may have some splainin to do.

I have installed these systems many years ago and they are pretty comfy but run some pretty big bucks to do right. "Hot water heaters are illegal to install in this application". At least in most states! Awe heck ya say I'm not getting it inspected anyways Go ahead have an accident and burn the place down have a catastrophic loss and see how much ya get! -0- Now what happens when the unit is to big for the structure? It short cycles, causing the unit to come on and off and efficiency diminishes because it doesn't get a chance to reach that high operating efficiency level. Besides its uncomfortable. Its best to be a little under in BTU's if yer wanting optimum efficiency.

Now Me??? I'm easy to please, I'm just happy to be in the Duke's Stable instead of laying outside on Ice freezing my arse off! If you want to be that comfortable go back in the house and kick back in the easy chair! Lets be honest here, this is a garage shop I'm not sayin freeze, I'm just sayin the cost difference of a 2K to 3K additional cost is allot. Depending on the shop size you could spend 5K having a floor system installed. And what happens if ya have a leak? I have a friend that put a system in and leak tested it before the concrete was poured and it ran good for two years and it sprung several leaks in the loop! Try bustin up the floor and fixing that.

Here is what I recommend. Do I have one Nope cause I have a Carrier 95% efficient PVC vent furnace that I got for free. It was a 80K after I plugged to of the outer burner orifices it is now 40K but if it goes out I will prolly put one of these in. These people invented the Radiant Heat Tube Heaters. I have prolly have installed 30 of this type in different applications. And if installed correctly, they can heat a floor to where it feels like floor radiant. These cost somewhere about $1500.00 Retail.

Cheers ~Duke

Re-Verber-Ray LS Series, Single-Stage, Residentially Approved* Infra-Red Tube Heater

[shorts 182]

that's the heater that I have, the only negative is that it doesn't feel like floor heat on my almost shiney melon, so I just put on a summer hat and soak up the heat in my back and shoulders.