Fire in the hold!

[tarcoleo 119]

After the last two cuttings, I noticed that the deck and my legs were covered

with black dust. Both times I thought the dust might be coming from something

rubbing a belt. Both times inspection of belts and all other components showed

no evidence of contact. However, this last time I noted major clumps of very

fibrous grass and stem materials caught up on one of the spindle/blade

assemblies on the bottom side. These clumps were tightly wrapped around

both the blade and around the housing such that there was a rotating component

and a static one. I reason that these two hard packed masses were rubbing

against each other and the friction and heat produced resulted in the soot.

Anybody ever have this problem ?

swamp yankee

[tarcoleo 119]

Well that was a nice theory about the matted material producing soot through

friction. Only thing is, after cleaning the deck, its still producing soot. The soot

(fine black powder) coats the forward 1/3 top of the deck after only 5 minutes of

mowing. We are talking about a WH 48" deck on a C-111. There are no moving

parts rubbing or touching, no sign of contact. Running the tractor with PTO off

results in no soot.

swamp yankee

[tarcoleo 119]

And now- "The rest of the story". This deck you might know is a deck that

I applied used engine oil to the underside of which, in hopes of providing some

corrosion resistance. What's happening I believe is that this oil-soaked layer

of rusted metal is being abraided during mowing resulting in the production of

a black dust that resembles soot. It will going away in time, soon I hope.

The end.

PS- Applying used engine oil to decks is a lousy idea.

swamp yankee

[Red Iron 1]

Fine black powder?? Not from used motor oil I think, it would be wetter

than dry dust. Starting cold, start tractor and run for a few minutes

mowing a small area. Shut it all off, feel the pulleys for any hotter than

normal. A hot one would indicate a bearing problem thus dragging the belt.

A hard to turn deck gives the PTO harder time to fully engage, or as

I should say, slips a bit more until it catches up.

I had some fiberous rope get wrapped around one of my blades

and apparently it was pulled between 2 blades deep and above the blade

into the bearing. Yep, it got really hot, had to remove blade to get it all

cleaned out, actually 2 blades had that stuff wrapped tight.

Just an experience to share

Did you smell it burning?

[hoosier 1]

Moldy grass maybe? I guess I should say are you mowing moldy grass? Maybe it's got a fungus or blight on it.

[tarcoleo 119]

Hoosier- No spores that I can tell, but the dust does resemble some

mushroom spores.

Red- When you had that spindle problem, did you see a lot of black

dust? I cannot feel the sheeves as you suggest because the belt covers

can only be removed if the deck is pulled out.

I did have the deck off today and all spindles are turning freely.

There has been so much black dust I can't imagine where it is coming from

other than the oiled layer. Nothing shows any wear. No toadstools. Stay tuned,

if the dust problem peters out--it may be doing that--then the oiled layer theory

could be right.

yankee in not too swampy RI

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,120]

Do you have a picture of the dust, exactly where it is coming from, could help?

[tarcoleo 119]

Karl- The finely divided black dust is coating the front of the deck

most heavily. It seems to be coming out from under the deck mostly

at the leading edge. It coats the deck evenly, not in blotches, heavily

toward the front and less toward the rear. The powder closely resembles

lampblack in texture.

Conditions under the deck while in operation are tornadic and particles

picked up from the ground are quite capable of abrading those inner

surfaces, those black surfaces in my case. I don't think there is any

source of "black stuff" available to the deck other than the rubber belt

and that has been rule out.

If the condition abates, that might indicate its the oil coating (I hope).

swamp yankee

[Duff 206]

Tarcoleo - don't rule out the mold spore idea yet. Up her in NH we've had a miserably wet summer and I've noticed a sooty, black coating developing on a lot of the vegetation here - very much like lampblack. I came in a few days ago with black soot on my shoes and the fronts of my jeans below the knees after walking through an area of my property I only mow a couple of times each season. Nasty stuff, but it washed off easily. I shudder to think what kind of allergens it may be producing, though...

JMHO

Duff :thumbs2:

[tarcoleo 119]

Hey Duff-

I'm going to check out that mold idea, Of course, we too have had all

that rain, and being hard on the sea, we have incredible humidity.

My wife claims to be picking up some kind of black discoloration at times

on shoes walking across the yard. Conditions would seem to favor your

idea. Thanks. I'll let you know what I find.

tarcoleo

[rwilson 128]

Quite possible could be mold spores. I havn't noticed anything here in pa yet. It has been a very wet year so far. So I would not rule that out yet. I know it sounds rediculous but put on a pair of white socks and go walk around in the grass befor you mow and that should tell you if it is mold or not! Keep us posted in what you find.

[plowmaster 0]

if it was mold i think you would know it.

a couple of years ago i picked a cornfield for a guy that was coverd in black mold, very nasty stuff. i was lucky as i only had to do 50 acres. sick for a couple of days. another fella i know picked two hundred acres and ended up in the hospital for a week, he passed out and slipped into a short coma. his machine had a newer and thus tighter cab also.

dont take any chances, remember, we were INSIDE combines with good cabin air filters. it still got inside. wear a mask mowing untill you find the source of the problem. and i dont mean one of those michael jackson my nose is falling off SARS masks, a good respirator with a high quality element.

play it safe, that is some nasty nasty stuff that will make you violently sick.

[bo dawg 477]

I've never heard of that sounds kinda dangerous. I wonder now what I experienced a few years ago could have been that. But I think it was more carburation creating soot out the exhaust. It was more than the deck that was getting it, including me. :thumbs:

[tarcoleo 119]

Good day. Well I did the experiment. Took a brick at the end of a long rope

with a large clean white cotton cloth trailing the brick about 18 inches and dragged

the combination around the yard for about 300 yards. Then I mowed about the

same distance around the yard where previously the "soot" had been a problem.

Despite the rain overnight the grass had dried in the sun and the test was carried

out at 12:30 PM.

Results- no black dust on the rag, almost no noticeable dust on the deck. Yesterday,

the accumulation on the deck, while starting to taper off, was much more evident.

These results do not tell me where the hell the stuff is coming from. The rate of

accumulation tapering off is consistent with the mold theory (rain rinse) and with the

decreasing abrasion of the oil-soaked undersurface of the deck.

Stay tuned you Sherlocks, more data forthcoming.

swamp yankee :thumbs2:

[Docwheelhorse 2,560]

Hi--I'll bet one of the pulleys is rough and is abusing the belt... I have seen a fine "soot" develop on a deck I had with a pitted rusty idler....

Also---is "Fire in the hole!" taken from the old days when you had to "touch off" a cannon by touching something lit to the "touch hole" in the back. They would yell that as a warning before they fired.

Tony

[tarcoleo 119]

Tony-

There are two similar expressions- "Fire in the hold" and "fire in the hole".

Fire in the hold refers to a shipboard fire. Fire in the hole refers to charge-

setting in mining or war as you point out. I chose fire in the hold for no good

reason other than there seems to be no hole involved in my problem, unless

the problem is a pain in the---(you know).

The deck belt has been carefully inspected twice and there is no sign of the

problem you suspect. As I said, all spindles are freely turning. But thanks-

Really would like to know what's going on.

Keep you informed,

Tom

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

"Curiouser and curiouser" said Alice!

:thumbs2:

[kpinnc 10,725]

Hi--I'll bet one of the pulleys is rough and is abusing the belt.

OK, is the belt slipping? Is it hot after use?

Kevin

[tarcoleo 119]

KP-

The issue is pretty well resolved. I talked to a long-time Little Compton man

who has been mowing in these parts for 30 or more years, as a town maintenance

foreman and as a private "lawn guy". He has never seen any accumulation of

black dust on any of his lawn mowing equip. He too thought the black dust must

be coming from the deck belt. Inspections twice do NOT indicate any wear on

the belt. Other tests (see above) do not indicate mold spores. Soooo-

with the dust all but having disappeared, it has to be the old oil applied to the

underside of the deck that gradually has been abraded away and produced dust.

Again, let me say that there is no indication that there is any problem with the belt.

Thanks for your interest. You can depend that I will inform if there is any other

indication. Hopefully, the problem has been laid to rest. God bless.

Tom (aka swamp yankee) :thumbs2:

[Red Iron 1]

Sounds like a TV special, "Unsolved Mysteries".

As it was stated earlier, turbulance under the deck does create

air flow under it as well around the edges. Ever thought to send a

sample to health dept to determine what it is? I know tests aren't

free, but if serious about health, I think it's worth the cost just to

know? Do you have neighbors with same problem?

You have me :scratchead:

[tarcoleo 119]

Hey Jerry,

I don't know what to say. Today I mowed about a quarter acre just for the

hell of it. I feel fine, no breathing problems, no rash, no excretion problems,

no loss of appetite, dizziness, or unusual bad odors, no signs of distress.

There was some accumulation of black powder on the deck, but not the great

accumulation seen a week or so ago. I hosed off the machine and it all washed

off readily.

I place a great deal of faith on my neighbor's experience mowing over the past

several decades who has never experienced "the black deck". So I'm cutting

grass just fine and the damn deck is either going to clean itself up or die over time.

I'm not going to take it down to inspect it a third time. Que sera, sera.

Italian swamp yankee :scratchead: