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sshell

Found 416-8

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sshell

I found a 416-8 while driving around the other day and stoped to check it out. The owner was not home so I just gave it a quick look and left. Its in OK shape. Been left outside probably its intire life, faded and rusted. No ideal if it runs. Looked like a 48" deck side discharge. Has wheel weights. I will be going back to check onto it further if I can catch the owner home. My question is with the very little info I gave, how much should I consider for an offer to the guy? :thumbs2:

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Docwheelhorse

HI--if its in OK shape and runs I would say between $3 and $4 hundred... thats about the standard for buying one of these tractors. In my humble opinion if it has the big single Kohler its worth a bit more than the twin Onan. Theres nothing wrong with the 16 Onan in retrospect but parts etc... are expensive and hard to find and then theres the elusive valve seat failure----which seems to only plague the Onan 20's but it would still be in the back of my mind all the time.

Tony

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Kelly

Myself I try not to make offers, find out if they want to sell it, then ask what they have to get for it, or what they think it is worth, you may get a shock may be free or want big $$$$$$ feel them out first don't offer big bucks if you can save some.

I just picked up a 655 two days ago guy called me said the local dealer gave him my phone no. to see if I would want it, runs like a top snow blade and mower deck, brand new batt. and I got it for $100 then the guy buys a briggs 11hp vert engine from me the next day for $75 :thumbs2:

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truckin88

HI--if its in OK shape and runs I would say between $3 and $4 hundred... thats about the standard for buying one of these tractors. In my humble opinion if it has the big single Kohler its worth a bit more than the twin Onan. Theres nothing wrong with the 16 Onan in retrospect but parts etc... are expensive and hard to find and then theres the elusive valve seat failure----which seems to only plague the Onan 20's but it would still be in the back of my mind all the time.

Tony

The $300-$400 is off a bit, when including a 48" deck, if the people watch the market, and ebay, and know what it is worth, I would expect around $650 +/- as long as the hours are reasonable, it runs ok, and the body is not a rust bucket....all that affects price.

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TT

The $300-$400 is off a bit, when including a 48" deck, if the people watch the market, and ebay, and know what it is worth, I would expect around $650 +/- as long as the hours are reasonable, it runs ok, and the body is not a rust bucket....all that affects price.

I really hate to break this to you, but you have it backwards. I promised myself I wouldn't get in to this discussion on here again but I'll keep it short.

What a tractor is worth and what they are listed for/sell for on eBay, Craigslist, etc. can not be compared. When you go to look at a tractor do you offer big money immediately because you saw one on eBay sell high? Of course you don't! Have you ever advertised something and not had someone try to offer you less than your asking price? Of course not! A Wheel Horse is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it and that's it.

eBay and the idiots that believe everything they see on there are what is making this hobby nothing more than a price-gouging money racket. Granted there are some models that should still bring decent money because of rarity or collectibility, but nothing like some of the jokes you see here on the internet.

I really think it's time for a reality check!

By the way - three years ago I paid $250 for a 1990 416H with a 48" deck (a little rough but not terrible) and this 1992 416-8 (and a quiet 42" SD deck that didn't make the picture) was bought for $325

416-8006.jpg

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bo dawg

Good comment TT, I have to agree especialy after paying too much for one before, but I wanted it. Only to find one better after the fact for less money :thumbs:

I think Ebay does hurt this hobby, although it does help with finding parts though. I just hate to see someone tare down a perfectly good tractor knowing hes gona make a lot of money parting it out. :thumbs2:

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hodge

I really hate to break this to you, but you have it backwards. I promised myself I wouldn't get in to this discussion on here again but I'll keep it short.

What a tractor is worth and what they are listed for/sell for on eBay, Craigslist, etc. can not be compared. When you go to look at a tractor do you offer big money immediately because you saw one on eBay sell high? Of course you don't! Have you ever advertised something and not had someone try to offer you less than your asking price? Of course not! A Wheel Horse is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it and that's it.

eBay and the idiots that believe everything they see on there are what is making this hobby nothing more than a price-gouging money racket. Granted there are some models that should still bring decent money because of rarity or collectibility, but nothing like some of the jokes you see here on the internet.

I really think it's time for a reality check!

By the way - three years ago I paid $250 for a 1990 416H with a 48" deck (a little rough but not terrible) and this 1992 416-8 (and a quiet 42" SD deck that didn't make the picture) was bought for $325

416-8006.jpg

That is the voice of wisdom!

I bought a 310-8 off the original owner, paid his stated price of $150, and sold the 37" deck and bagger, coming out even. $0.00 in an excellent running, dependable WH. They don't happen like that every day, but neither do you need to get taken to the cleaners. Listen to those on here who have been at this game a long time, and don't be impulsive. The deals can be found.

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jtmoyer

ok so here are the numbers from a retail man, spent my working live so far buying and selling.

sold a 416 twin onan with a 37" deck and a 42" plow for $500 last summer in indiana. for some reason thy are worth more here the no the east cost. i break it down by parts when looking at buying or selling a tractor . i only include the attachments and the parts that people are looking to buy. a plow 100 to 200, bracket 20 to 30, a non-holey deck 100 to 200, ag tires 50 to 100.

some of the attachment are affected by season a tiller will bring more in the spring put you will almost have to give it away in the winter, same with a snowblower.

so i figured they guy that bought my 416 payed 250 for the tractor. which was a good deal for him and i payed around 500 for everything (bought at different times) and used the tractor for 2 years.

those are just the numbers i use when looking at tractors

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oldandred

A BIG THANK YOU TT

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truckin88

I really hate to break this to you, but you have it backwards. I promised myself I wouldn't get in to this discussion on here again so I'll keep it short.

What a tractor is worth and what they are listed for/sell for on eBay, Craigslist, etc. can not be compared. When you go to look at a tractor do you offer big money immediately because you saw one on eBay sell high? Of course you don't! Have you ever advertised something and not had someone try to offer you less than your asking price? Of course not! A Wheel Horse is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it and that's it.

eBay and the idiots that believe everything they see on there are what is making this hobby nothing more than a price-gouging money racket. Granted there are some models that should still bring decent money because of rarity or collectibility, but nothing like some of the jokes you see here on the internet.

I really think it's time for a reality check!

By the way - three years ago I paid $250 for a 1990 416H with a 48" deck (a little rough but not terrible) and this 1992 416-8 (and a quiet 42" SD deck that didn't make the picture) was bought for $325

416-8006.jpg

TT I agree with this, but anything is worth only what people are willing to pay. An item that is sold and paid for on ebay, shows what someone is willing to pay. In NY/NJ a 400 series that functions and is clean goes for around $700 +/- depending on attachments. In NY if I was getting a nice 400 series with a nice deck for $400-500 I would think I was getting a great deal.

Now the tractors you listed are steals/bargains to me, and you could resell them and make money, many guys on this forum do that.

Like you said something is only worth what people are willing to pay and on the other end what people will sell it for....look at housing...it was worth a ton more before the bubble burst, now people want to low ball or can not get the financing, which limits the possible buyers, and kills demand.

Ebay does also help the consumer, if someone is asking $2000 for a 312-8, which I have seen...you know it is a rip off...you can see what they have sold for in your area.

I also agree with the comments on the seasons, but remember geography has a lot to do with it as well.

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TT

An item that is sold and paid for on ebay, shows what someone is willing to pay.

But an item that sells for 3 to 4 times more than anyone in their right mind would pay for it is nonsense and only helps to make other sellers more greedy and drive up prices for the rest of us to pay.

I spoke with an idiot - I mean gentleman last year about a 100% virgin original 550 Suburban / mower deck that was in his family since it was new. As soon as he said "I'll have to check eBay and see what they're selling for" when I asked him for an idea on the asking price, I knew it was time to turn around and walk away. :thumbs2:

Many times, as soon as someone starts to get a little serious about collecting something, they get in to some kind of psychological frenzy where they think they have to buy everything that pertains to what they decide to collect. Instead of being patient and working on the seller - or even looking for a better deal from someone else, they'll scarf up whatever it is for any amount of money just to keep another collector from getting it or just to have more than anyone else. I realize that certain things are more scarce in certain areas, and that can effect the "local" prices of goods, but that can not be left influence the price of those goods in general.

Those of us who have been in this for a while have all seen what's happening and where it's headed.

If you want to see how crazy things are just look at this eBay auction or worse yet.... this one. :ychain:

To each his own, I guess. :thumbs:

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bo dawg

:thumbs: who is willing to pay that much for a seat? I don't care if it has gold stiching, thats a crazy price, and the sad thing is its still going. $92 for a model? I guess some people has more money than sence. :thumbs2:

It's true people look on ebay to see what prices are at on things. They forget its an auction and not a price guide like Kelly Blue Book or the black book the auto dealers have. I wonder if there's a way we can put a price cap/limit on these tractors, then that would slow ebay down to where people knew its at its limit and now continue at your own risk :ychain:

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truckin88

But an item that sells for 3 to 4 times more than anyone in their right mind would pay for it is nonsense and only helps to make other sellers more greedy and drive up prices for the rest of us to pay.

I spoke with an idiot - I mean gentleman last year about a 100% virgin original 550 Suburban / mower deck that was in his family since it was new. As soon as he said "I'll have to check eBay and see what they're selling for" when I asked him for an idea on the asking price, I knew it was time to turn around and walk away. :thumbs2:

Many times, as soon as someone starts to get a little serious about collecting something, they get in to some kind of psychological frenzy where they think they have to buy everything that pertains to what they decide to collect. Instead of being patient and working on the seller - or even looking for a better deal from someone else, they'll scarf up whatever it is for any amount of money just to keep another collector from getting it or just to have more than anyone else. I realize that certain things are more scarce in certain areas, and that can effect the "local" prices of goods, but that can not be left influence the price of those goods in general.

Those of us who have been in this for a while have all seen what's happening and where it's headed.

If you want to see how crazy things are just look at this eBay auction or worse yet.... this one. :ychain:

To each his own, I guess. :thumbs:

TT I 100% agree with you on those auctions are nuts. I look what they go for locally, but more importantly I also look at condition, hours, drive train, how it was maintained, attachments & accessories, and most of all what has to go into it, such as battery, tires, seat etc. I think people get to caught up with ebay, I like craigslist more, because it sometimes takes the competition and globalness out of it. There were a bunch of WH dealers around here, back in the day, so the seems to be a decent amount, just some are beat.

The best bargaining tactic I have found, I pull up in my Dodge Ram and trailer, know how much I want to spend have about that in cash, ask what they want, offer what I will pay, tell them I have a truck/trailer and cash, hate to say it usually they cave. Not everyone has the means or access to them for pickup and delivery, you have to take advantage that you do. Especially when you go to metro areas, long island, northern jersey. One guy said no on a Deere 312 I looked at, then chased me down the driveway, and I ended up giving him $50 less then my original offer, cause he was a PITA....haha The biggest part of this hobby, and the most difficult, is you have to know when to pass, sometimes you make the right move, sometimes you regret it.

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Wheel Horse Fan

So where are you guys finding these tractors for those kind of prices? $325 for that 416-8?

Some feel I paid a decent price for my 416-8 and from what I had seen prior to this thread I thought it was an ok price as well. I paid $1200 for a '97 416-8, 233 hrs with 48" deck. From all the other prices I saw in my area it was a decent price. Most of you have a lot more time in these tractors then I do, but maybe it is my area that the prices are that much higher.

I remember selling an early '80s 305-8 with a 42" deck, in ran ok and everything did work. We sold it in 2002 for $900 if I remember correctly. It wasn't sold on ebay either. It sat in the front yard.

There is a toro (formerly wheel horse) dealer here near me he had a couple of 300 series tractors. One was a 312-8 400+ hrs, no deck, but with a 42" plow. They wanted $1000 for it.

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truckin88

So where are you guys finding these tractors for those kind of prices? $325 for that 416-8?

Some feel I paid a decent price for my 416-8 and from what I had seen prior to this thread I thought it was an ok price as well. I paid $1200 for a '97 416-8, 233 hrs with 48" deck. From all the other prices I saw in my area it was a decent price. Most of you have a lot more time in these tractors then I do, but maybe it is my area that the prices are that much higher.

I remember selling an early '80s 305-8 with a 42" deck, in ran ok and everything did work. We sold it in 2002 for $900 if I remember correctly. It wasn't sold on ebay either. It sat in the front yard.

There is a toro (formerly wheel horse) dealer here near me he had a couple of 300 series tractors. One was a 312-8 400+ hrs, no deck, but with a 42" plow. They wanted $1000 for it.

I am in NY, I feel you pain, NY/NJ/CT prices seem to be the highest of where there are an abundance of tractors, though there are some dudes in PA that are not giving anything away.

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Raider12

I am in NY, I feel you pain, NY/NJ/CT prices seem to be the highest of where there are an abundance of tractors, though there are some dudes in PA that are not giving anything away.

I too feel your pain. I watch the local news papers and bulletin boards and Craigslist as well. No bargins here. in NE Ohio! I found a 1988 520-H last year just few blacks away from my house. It had been sitting on a dirt floor for over 4 years and the deck was gone and the tractor would even run. Pice? $1200. I ran..........

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whfan74

I agree with what TT said.

I have been on both sides of the fence...........getting caught up in the excitement of what I think is a great find and paying too much. I have also taken my time and have started to become a little more picky now and it has paid off. For a while I wanted the next newest thing that pops up. I have only been in the hobby for about 2 years and am now seeing that you can find good deals........they ARE out there, but take emotion out of it and they will come to you.

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can whlvr

I too agree that something is worth what you are willing to pay for it ,and that geography is definitly a factor,because up here in canada in ontario,you have to watch for them,i just paid 500 for a 1978 c 101 in good shape really straight body,and very sound motorand tranny,probally i paid more than in some places in the states would charge,but you dont see very many c series up here,for cheap.

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hodge

I agree with what TT said.

I have been on both sides of the fence...........getting caught up in the excitement of what I think is a great find and paying too much. I have also taken my time and have started to become a little more picky now and it has paid off. For a while I wanted the next newest thing that pops up. I have only been in the hobby for about 2 years and am now seeing that you can find good deals........they ARE out there, but take emotion out of it and they will come to you.

I agree with you completely.

There is a degree of insecurity that drives these high price purchases. I have done it, and I imagine that most here have. Once over that, and once you have a tractor or two that are reliable, you no longer feel the need to jump on anything that comes along. That impulse buying also drives the prices up. WH's are not for sell very often in my area, but I have learned to be patient. I paid $1000 for a 520 H, which I now think was too much, but was able to sell it for that. I have no money now in my 310, and I just missed a 518-H- it needed a fuel pump, but the guy was selling it for $75. Somebody beat me to it, but the point is, the reasonable priced tractors are out there, even in areas where they are more scarce.

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kpinnc

I have to agree with TT on this one. (I said I'd leave this alone too- BUT)

One thing that seems to come up again and again on this thread, aside from Ebay, are the "factors" on a price. Fellas, just STOP IT! :thumbs:

I know a nice well kept machine with all the extras has more allure than a pull start 3 speed, but the whole point TT was making is that a good price is whatever the seller and buyer are both comfortable with. Unless we are standing there, looking at the machine ourselves, we shouldn't be throwing numbers around. And since there is no Kelly Blue book value associated with our hobby, all we can do is offer a price we are comfortable with.

Eldon and I were joking about the difference between "Pennsylvania rough", and "North Carolina rough" just the other day. What most people would consider a rough tractor is a fantastic find down here. Point being? Using the term "in good shape" is leaving an awful lot of gray area. Reminds me of using the hour meter to determine the condition of the engine without having any clue of how the tractor was serviced, or at least taking a peek at the dipstick. I have a 520-H that threw a rod at 550 hours, and Eldon has a fantastic running one with 2200 hours on it. It's good to determine how much something was used, but it isn't the only determining factor when I buy something new. Until you've met the seller, talked with them about it, and driven the machine, you can't really say what you'd spend on one.

Now I understand what Steve is asking for in the original post here- A ballpark number to have an idea where to start for HIM. When everybody jumps on board with 50 different factors, it just gets silly.

Steve, here's my opinion: Go have a look, and see what he'll take. If you like it, go for it. Personally, I've spent $400 on a rusty broke up RJ, or as little as $50 for a running C series. Go with your gut, and make a deal YOU are happy with. I know these machines aren't yet a dime a dozen, but there will be plenty more to look into if this one does not work out. :thumbs2:

To everyone else- If you have all these formulas for determining the value of a tractor, then please compile them and get them published so we can all have a rule book and be on the same page. Otherwise, stop speculating. Our hobby (and the economy- LOL) has had enough of such things.

Kevin

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Wheel Horse Fan

kpinnc, you have made some good points. No more speculating.

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