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Drydock

Help! I need a Cam!

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Drydock

Rebuilding an H60 out of a L-156 Lawn Ranger, got a Short Block from Farmers Exchange. Their LAST H60 Short block, according to the guy on the phone, but it matched the specs on my engine, or so we thought.

My engine was an H60-75117E This is an alternator and Starter equipped engine, with a points and automotive coil ignition. The Points cam was machined into the crank. it had a fairly abrupt opening ramp, with a long closing ramp.

The Short Block is an SBH 6110B. Everything fits, but it requires a seperate cam. A member here sold me a very nice cam, but it turns out to have the wrong profile, opening the points far after tdc. And far out of possible adjustment range.

Does anyone here have or know where to find a proper points cam?

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Docwheelhorse

Ummmm--sounds like the engine is miss timed (point cam installed wrong???) I have also never heard of a tecumseh with an automotive 12 volt coil ignition???? :omg: I have more questions than answers here.... Is it possible that you installed the lobe for the points upside down? If the lobe slides onto the crank and is driven by a pin/keyway I assume it could be installed upside down and if the lobe is a ramp it would act all screwed up as you describe---this is purely a guess on my part. Sorry for just throwing ideas out there. I am NOT knowledgable when it comes to Tecumsehs...... I am just using my Briggs knowledge (the cam drive gear slides onto the crank and is indeed driven by a pin....)

Hope I helped somehow.... otherwise i just proved how stupid I am when it comes to those dang Injun motors!!!!!! :drool:

Tony

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Drydock

I should have said, I need the points cam. And I've tried flipping it, but comes nowhere close. Tec cams are marked with an arrow BTW, to show direction of rotation, thus direction of installation.

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past7971

Did the newer replacement engine have the magneto/points under the flywheel or pickup coil on outside of flywheel? Are you trying to make a recoil-only engine into an electric/charging engine?

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past7971

Being a short-block, I just had my brain engage and realized you probably did not get flywheel or ignition :omg: Are there cast stand-off's above flywheel? Is it cast to mount your magneto/stator? And does your H60 flywheel seem to want to fit or is its crank hole diameter different size/taper?

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Drydock

Well, it has the proper mounting points for the alternator, and the flywheel mounts perfectly to the tapered shaft. There are no cast stand offs above the flywheel, thus no place to mount a magneto ignition. It does in fact look completely identical to my old engine casing.

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past7971

No cast stand -offs above flywheel is GOOD. That means you SHOULD have correct replacement H60 block for your needs. And since your original alternator/stator (which includes magneto/points) mounts under your flywheel which you say fits shaft correctly, I am TOTALLY baffled by why your points cam is so far off from working correctly since you seem to understand the arrow direction/rotation to install it correctly :omg: . Are you checking TDC with head off? Are both valves closed? If not, have you pulled the output shaft side cover to check and make sure that the crank/camshaft timing marks are lined up. I know the points are controlled off the crank and not the cam but somethings not right here. Are you sure you have correct points cam?

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past7971

OK, now I'm really totally baffled :omg: I am by no means a Tecumseh expert but have rebuilt a few H60's. Thats been years ago :drool: so I thought I'd check a few of my cores I keep for future reference. EVERY one I have has a removable points cam and it HAS to be removable to install/remove crankshaft through block and crank seal. As Tony commented after your first post, I wondered about your "automotive coil ignition" but now I can not understand how your original H60-75117E engine had points cam "machined into the crank". Are you sure??? I did check my point cams and they all have the keyway cast in them @ 1/4" past the arrow point in a clockwise direction to see if yours is the same.

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Drydock

Well, my Tecumseh Technical Manual states that some engines have the ignition cam cast integral to the crankshaft, and my old engine indeed does. Ii have the head off, I was checking the timing, intending to set the points .080 BTDC as in the book, when I found how far this cam is off. It is rather odd. The cam is indeed machined as you say, but in order for the rotation to match the arrow the arrow has to face toward the engine rather than outward toward me. THis is in opposition to the manual. I'm stumped. I'd like to try a few different cams, but none are listed in any of the sites I've looked at. Parts tree has most everything else, but does not even list ignition/points cams.

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sorekiwi

If this helps at all (and since I'm the SOB that sent you the apparently wrong cam!! :omg: )

The cam I sent you came off the H60 that was on my '63 Ranger, spec 75009. It is identical to another one I have here (origon unknown) with regard to shape of the lobe and key position.

I'm interested to hear what you find. :drool:

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past7971

OK, One last stab here at this one--With engine at TDC, is keyway slot in crank facing up? The points cam IS installed with arrow facing OUT towards you so you can see it. Is your magneto/stator installed so points are on L/H side of crank and NOT spun 180 degrees so they're incorrectly positoned on R/H side of crank? If so and you can see where stator hold down bolts were positioned in adjuster slots before, I'd lock it down there and see what you get. BTW-points gap is set at .020

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Drydock

-Yes

-Yes

Done that, Cam is way off, points open waaaay past TDC. BTW the cam profile I have is completely different from that of the intergral cam on the old crank. it has the lift directly over the flywheel key slot, where as on the seperate cam the lift is .25" or so past the slot.

Hey Sorewicki, not your fault at all, I should have checked this all long ago.

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oldandred

Some thing isnt right I have about 20 tec with the mag and charging board with dioes and none of them have a coil like a car this just doesnt add up

now you said the coil came with the short block ? or did the dealer tell you need it.

all of mine the crank has the little point sleve that slides on to it can you post any pictures of the short block and coil ?

it sure would help

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Drydock

The coil was mounted on the back of the steering tower, under the hood of the Lawn Ranger, on the plate just below where the 2 hood retaining screws thread in.

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past7971

As I stated before--I am no Tecumseh expert but I cant think of any H60 including tillers, snowblowers, etc. that used an external coil. I do know that the H60-75117E was NOT ORIGINALLY set-up like that so somebody has done some interesting changes to it. Sounds like you need to find the correct magneto/stator for your application. The original magneto with alternator was 610681A and you will most likely need the rectifier panel that would be have been mounted on outside of flywheel/blower housing/shroud extension (looks like a fuse box with two fuses)

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past7971

I just did a quick Ebay search and although there are a few magneto systems on there, they were all recoil-only and didn't have alternator yours will require. Anyone else have one or at least a picture of the correct one he will need?

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TT

:omg:

teccoil002.jpg

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sorekiwi

I seem to remember that the coil for these was still available from NAPA.

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Drydock

My alternator looks NOTHING like that, I'm going to try to get some pictures up later this week. The tractor has an external 3 connection rectifier Does anyone else out there have an L-156 Lawn Ranger? I'd be interested in knowing how its set up.

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past7971

The picture TT posted IS the correct original magneto/alternator ignition system your H60-75117E with electric start SHOULD have. :omg: Anyone else, please feel free to jump in here any time now because I dont think he really believes me :drool:

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sorekiwi

The picture TT posted IS the correct original magneto/alternator ignition system your H60-75117E with electric start SHOULD have. :omg: Anyone else, please feel free to jump in here any time now because I dont think he really believes me :drool:

Here is a pic of the coil/alternator that were on the engine that the points cam I sent you came off: (H60-75009 electric start)

IMG_2242.jpg

Looks the same as TT's to me. You can see the points arrangement here though.

Here's a pic of the crank from the same engine. The keyway seems to be offset just a little from TDC, although its hard to see in the picture. This would make sense if the nose of the cam is directly above the key in it.

IMG_2243.jpg

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Drydock

Oh, I believe ya, just mine is so dang different . . .

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