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bo dawg

Questions for D owners

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bo dawg

Just curious!

Since I'm new to owning a D-160 with 3 point and rear/front PTO, electric clutch, B43M Onan. What is the most favored "D" model with best practical using package? (D-250 does not count)

Example;

Electric PTO clutch or manual? 

B model Onans or Kohler?

16hp or 18hp, 20hp? Which I know bigger engine the better, but some have their good side and bad side.

 

I love this 160 I have, but like I said its the only one I've owned, and very recent to it. 

 

Edited by bo dawg
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bo dawg

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pfrederi

I usually pick Kohlers over Onans because of parts availability/price...but in this case parts for the Kohler twins are hard to come by and pricey.

 

I do however much prefer the manual PTO.  You can feather it to gently start an implement (especially snow blowers and roto tillers.  The electric PTO engagement is rather sudden and violent.

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bo dawg
1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

I usually pick Kohlers over Onans because of parts availability/price...but in this case parts for the Kohler twins are hard to come by and pricey.

 

I do however much prefer the manual PTO.  You can feather it to gently start an implement (especially snow blowers and roto tillers.  The electric PTO engagement is rather sudden and violent.

That makes sense on the PTO for sure, didn't think about that.

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Machineguy
28 minutes ago, bo dawg said:

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Beast! I like it! 

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bo dawg

I thought I would have gotten a bit more replies by now. 

I just wanted to see what others thought of the Ds

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Skipper

My only insight on the it would be that the D often is seen with a 60" deck. You can not have too much power for that..................... :-) 

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Sarge

The big Kohler K series twin opposed engines are torque monsters - huge difference over anything else in how they run and pull implements, ect. Personally, I'd aim right for the top of the heap and find a D-200, D-180 at the minimum. While the power is nice, they all share some weak points with one glaringly big one that is common - that pump coupling. When it fails, no new parts available except a new pump shaft ($280, I think) and finding a solid, good set of splines in a used coupling is a shot in the dark. When mine went south, it got a different pump with good splines, a new center portion in the coupling from a C-series input pulley and we machined a key into the whole assembly. Not a cheap endeavor. The D's are an animal and can do a lot of work - but keep a backup plan handy as it will probably be needed. 

 

Sarge

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Machineguy

The D-series are growing on me. @bo dawg

Thanks for putting this up here! I’m gonna be following any D series related posts from here on out as I’d like to learn the pros and cons on these. The water cooled D’s I’ve heard can be problematic and poor parts availability are often a headache. I’d say either a Kohler or Onan powered machine would make for a solid reliable worker. Post more of this machine please! :banana-rock:

Edited by Machineguy
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Sarge

The only water-cooled model was the D-250 with the Renault engine. That bigger tractor was made by Gutbrod, so it's really not a WH except for the decals.

 

Sarge

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Machineguy
1 minute ago, Sarge said:

The only water-cooled model was the D-250 with the Renault engine. That bigger tractor was made by Gutbrod, so it's really not a WH except for the decals.

 

Sarge

We’re they solid machines or just problems on four wheels? There was one for sale a couple hours away from me a while back and seemed like a good price? Perhaps the good price had a reason I wondered? 

Thanks for sharing the knowledge as I’m soaking it up on these. 

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bo dawg
1 hour ago, Machineguy said:

We’re they solid machines or just problems on four wheels? There was one for sale a couple hours away from me a while back and seemed like a good price? Perhaps the good price had a reason I wondered? 

Thanks for sharing the knowledge as I’m soaking it up on these. 

The 250's I always heard was pricey on parts if you could find them and they one of their own kind. Parts for the Renault engines was scarce. 

That's why in my original post I excluded the 250's. Don't want to even go there with them. Lol!

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bo dawg
2 hours ago, Sarge said:

The big Kohler K series twin opposed engines are torque monsters - huge difference over anything else in how they run and pull implements, ect. Personally, I'd aim right for the top of the heap and find a D-200, D-180 at the minimum. While the power is nice, they all share some weak points with one glaringly big one that is common - that pump coupling. When it fails, no new parts available except a new pump shaft ($280, I think) and finding a solid, good set of splines in a used coupling is a shot in the dark. When mine went south, it got a different pump with good splines, a new center portion in the coupling from a C-series input pulley and we machined a key into the whole assembly. Not a cheap endeavor. The D's are an animal and can do a lot of work - but keep a backup plan handy as it will probably be needed. 

 

Sarge

 

What exactly is the pump coupling that would cause that trouble?

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pfrederi

Engine to pump

 

 

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bo dawg
2 hours ago, Machineguy said:

The D-series are growing on me. @bo dawg

Thanks for putting this up here! I’m gonna be following any D series related posts from here on out as I’d like to learn the pros and cons on these. The water cooled D’s I’ve heard can be problematic and poor parts availability are often a headache. I’d say either a Kohler or Onan powered machine would make for a solid reliable worker. Post more of this machine please! :banana-rock:

 

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9600EE81-845F-4188-A76D-58A711A9A513.jpeg

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Machineguy

Awesome! Thanks 

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bo dawg
1 minute ago, Machineguy said:

Awesome! Thanks 

 

I been cleaning on it and re wiring as I go. I want to get some paint on it soon and make a decent looking worker out of it. I've only owned it for a month or so. Its growing on me pretty fast. Lol!

It has no leaks any where except a little oil seepage around a couple head bolts on 1 side. Runs good!

Now if I can just sell the 60" 3 point finish mower I got with it.

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bo dawg
18 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Engine to pump

 

 

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That little 2 bolt piece causes that much trouble! 

What signs does it give when it is starting to go bad?

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pfrederi

Yes the splines inside strip out as the pump shaft only engages a portion of them.  I don't think they give much warning one day nothing works:P

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bo dawg

So does this look normal?

Not flat. 

image.jpg

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pfrederi

The TSB on the coupling shows a slightly different hook up for Onan's compared to Kohlers.  I have a Kohler my rubber donut runs flat...  Do not know about Onan's

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bo dawg

Yea Onan just had to be different so Kohler wouldnt get mad at them. Lol!

Edited by bo dawg

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pacer

"So does this look normal? "

Looks can be deceiving -- If it shows signs of destructing then obviously it s going, but with spline wear its likely to not be visible. Get in there with your hand or long screw driver or wrench and see if you can detect ANY slack on either motor side of pump side. Even this isnt a very reliable indicator, as mentioned, one day it will just quit!

 

Im in the Kohler engine group also and as far as extras you have the very best accessory of all and thats the 3 point. My D-160 and D-180 have it but my D-200 doesnt:-o

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Machineguy

Curious if a modern Lovejoy coupler could be adapted for use on this? Or if perhaps the splined flange and pump input shaft could be drilled together for a roll pin to help with reducing pressure and slack in the splines? 

After failure the input shaft could possibly be welded and key slotted (after pump disassembly) for the Lovejoy coupler. Then a small adapter for the engine could be made for that. That would eliminate vibration and would offer a coupler readily available at many places. Just trying to think of options here as I’m considering one of these machines in my future. :handgestures-thumbupright:

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Sarge

Ok - from what I've learned with my own nightmare on the D's Sundstrand pump there is no Lovejoy coupling that will fit that shaft without a lot of machine work. The two main issues are the size of the shaft (9/16" or so) and 17 spline count. The other, the coupling itself - it's cast iron, not cast steel. So, over time, hard loading or shock loads - the splines will fail. That picture of the D-160 coupling is a red flag - either someone has had it apart and reversed it, or they moved the engine back tighter against the pump from a stripped shaft, or both. That rubber puck should not be flexed in that manner when it's right. The more I look at it, looks as though someone has put spacers on the engine flywheel side to shove it tightly against the pump splines - not good.

 

Now, that said, it can be repaired - but there's a problem. There are no new couplings available unless you get crazy lucky and score a NOS one from somewhere. I found a "decent" used one that still had some wear already showing on it - very tough to determine if one is worn or not until it's in your hands and you can fit it against the shaft splines. Mine had failed miserably, blowing the teeth off both the pump shaft and internal splines in the coupling when I snagged the front blade on some concrete. Repairs were not cheap as I had a lot of machine work done to the repair to make it work - knock on wood, but so far it's holding well.

 

LJ Fluid Power in Michigan is your friend for that pump and any parts needed. They even went to the trouble to have new shafts made to repair pumps that are stripped - $280 I believe. On mine, I sourced a good solid used pump, a C-1*1 model rear input pulley that is splined and spent about $400 at a machine shop. Had the shop machine a keyway into the pump shaft and wire EDM (look it up, cool process for cutting) a matching slot in the pulley center which has to be indexed/timed properly to match the splines. The old, stripped coupling was bored out to accept the C-series hub after I machined off the factory weld and removed it. That was pressed into the old coupling and welded, very carefully. So, now the coupling has a C-series splined pulley center with a key and a set screw in it to make a more robust connection. 

 

There is a chance a Lovejoy coupling could be used - but you'd have to machine that pump shaft into another shape to make it work, and that shaft diameter is already too small. The problem with the design is that shaft is sized to allow the pump housing cover to come off - so if you wanted to weld the shaft into a bigger diameter the aluminum pump housing cover would need matching work and its shape will really not allow that. Be aware that the shaft on that Sundstrand pump is some seriously hard material - the machine shop wiped out some cutters trying to get the key slot done. Also, the cast iron coupling is very high in carbon and does not weld very well nor is it easy to machine. I'd bet this process cost the 2 shops at least 5 cutters...

Due to the location of the pump, coupling and associated hydraulic parts working on that D is a frustrating endeavor, but it can be done. I do love mine now that it's fixed, the extra weight, 3pt hitch and a frame that can withstand a tremendous load is nice to have around here. I have a fairly detailed thread somewhere around this site about the whole repair process - might want to check it out.

 

Sarge

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