Wheel horse XL build

[redbeard22 123]

1 minute ago, dells68 said:

It would be a move you wouldn't regret.  Some folks don't care for these Predators, but for the money, you can't go wrong!

I agree i have purchased lots of stuff from harbor freight and have not been disapointed so far. I even baught one of there generators with a predator engine on it and it runs great

[redbeard22 123]

I like all the creative ideas but i have to keep one thing in mind this machine will be for more work then play,but i guess when you are using a tractor to work it kind of is like playing so there is a little bit of a grey area there but anyway my goal is simplicity, reliability, duribility. If i keep to that goal i think it will last a long time. I cant wait to see it pulling a wagon load of firewood and plowing snow

[ebinmaine 62,949]

4 minutes ago, redbeard22 said:

Iguess when you are using a tractor to work it kind of is like playing...........

I cant wait to see it pulling a wagon load of firewood....

 

We agree!!!

[Pullstart 59,537]

8 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

With proper spacing n brackets any engine is a possibility.....

 

But you probably better go with The Predator.

Just ask Ian, @Stigian!

[Pullstart 59,537]

If you are thinking mechanical gear box 90, the old 60’s mower decks are belt driven from the side to 90 degree spindles via side gear action.  Possibly with the right pulley sizing at full throttle, you could obtain that 540 rpm?

 

 

[Sarge 3,462]

My engine vote would be a Yanmar diesel - keep an eye out in the semi truck boneyards for either a refrigeration unit or one of the pre-heating units off a heavy truck, they all use small diesel engines. Hydraulic pto unit would be the way to go - and a lot more forgiving. 

 

Sarge

[posifour11 723]

3 hours ago, Sarge said:

My engine vote would be a Yanmar diesel - keep an eye out in the semi truck boneyards for either a refrigeration unit or one of the pre-heating units off a heavy truck, they all use small diesel engines. Hydraulic pto unit would be the way to go - and a lot more forgiving. 

 

Sarge

My suggestion for that size would be one of the old Wisconsin v-4s used on a lot of old military generators. 

 

It's funny that I found this thread. I was kinda thinking of doing the same thing just a couple hours ago. Keep it up! I'm loving it!

[redbeard22 123]

5 hours ago, posifour11 said:

My suggestion for that size would be one of the old Wisconsin v-4s used on a lot of old military generators. 

I would love to get my hands on one of those engines but for now ill use what i have and see how it goes. No update today didnt get a chance to go out to the shop today, had to deal with that pesky thing called work lol but i will be ordering parts for a jackshaft to go under the frame because my transmission input pulley is now located inside/under the new frame. There is a ton of room under there so i am just going to put a jackshaft that runs across the frame with a couple bearings and that will get the pulley to the outside edge of the frame and i can run a belt to the engine. Ill try tomorrow to get some pics of what im talking about and see if anybody has a better idea.

[McGrew 460]

Redbeard22, OK, you asked what we think... I cannot speak for the others here, but I think you are having WAY more fun than ought to be allowed!    I love what you are doing!  I am a fan of resto mods in any form, and your tractor is talking that to the next level!  

[redbeard22 123]

1 hour ago, McGrew said:

Redbeard22, OK, you asked what we think... I cannot speak for the others here, but I think you are having WAY more fun than ought to be allowed!    I love what you are doing!  I am a fan of resto mods in any form, and your tractor is talking that to the next level!  

I agree it is fun but im also thankful that i have the skills and tools to do it. Not everybody can look at something they have and say i built that. I just enjoy building and fabricating of any kind wood, metal it doesnt matter and i espacially like making things that i can use to do other things with if that makes sense. Ok enough for today hopefully tomorrow after work ill get some more work done and have some more pics for you guys.

[redbeard22 123]

Got a little bit done 2nite added some pieces in to widen the center console. I know there is big gaps between the pieces but i have a piece of thick copper strapping to clamp behind and i can fill that in with the mig welder and grind it all smooth. Should look factory when im done. Anyone have any suggestions on widening the dash piece? I have 3 of them so i though of cutting a little off the end of 2 of them and having them welded together and drill a new hole for the steering shaft. If anybody has a better idea throw it out there.

[WHX?? 46,681]

Cut the dash strait down the middle, then bolt the two pieces up to the right and left hood stand. Get a dim from there for the center line then cut the center from the extra dash to match the finnish cut of the bolted and cut dash. This may or may not mach the dims of the tunnell & hoodstand widening. Easy peasy assuming you have the moxy to weld AL AND the dash is weldable aluminium?? This would also give you dims for widening the hood. Smart guy would at this point allow for some kind of center upper dash bearing support for HD steering.

[redbeard22 123]

6 hours ago, WHX20 said:

Cut the dash strait down the middle, then bolt the two pieces up to the right and left hood stand. Get a dim from there for the center line then cut the center from the extra dash to match the finnish cut of the bolted and cut dash. This may or may not mach the dims of the tunnell & hoodstand widening. Easy peasy assuming you have the moxy to weld AL AND the dash is weldable aluminium?? This would also give you dims for widening the hood. Smart guy would at this point allow for some kind of center upper dash bearing support for HD steering.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Although i can weld aluminum none of my welders are set up for aluminum so that is going to be outsourced to one of my buddys that has a nice tig setup. As far as a bearing support goes i plan to use a steering colum from the john deere 112 that i got a few other parts off of. It has an outer sleeve with a bushing atbthe top for the actaul steering shaft to ride against and it has a nice gearbox type action on the bottom side.i dont think the traditional wheelhorse steering gear setup would be enough for this size of a tractor unless i had a gear reduction unit like on a 520 or similar. Hopefully tonight i will get back out to the shop and see what else i can get done. I think the next step is to get the dash widened and that will give me the dimension of the hood at the rear and locate the top of the steering colum.

[FatJackDurham 318]

On 8/20/2018 at 8:50 PM, dells68 said:

Catch one of the Harbor Freight 22hp Predators on sale and you'll never regret it.  They are powerful and very stout!  Only thing is they don't have thrust bearings on the crank.  Not an issue if you don't need a PTO.  If you do, you could always go the electric route.  I out one in Emory's Christmas tractor and it is a beast.

 

 

 

What do you mean about the thrust bearings on the crank for the PTO? Do you mean that if you use a manual PTO, it pushes the crank into the engine in an unhealthy way? And why would an electric PTO not do the same?

[Pullstart 59,537]

1 hour ago, FatJackDurham said:

 

What do you mean about the thrust bearings on the crank for the PTO? Do you mean that if you use a manual PTO, it pushes the crank into the engine in an unhealthy way? And why would an electric PTO not do the same?

I believe Kohler and Onans have a bearing designed for side load on the crank.  A hydraulic pump or pto would not place the side load, like the traditional WheelHorse belt drive does.

[Sarge 3,462]

If you plan to weld that aluminum dash - make sure the tig is capable of a lot of ac balance control, you'll need as much cleaning action as possible. I've welded up a few that were badly worn from the hood latch eating into them after a broken frame or dash stand, that stuff is some highly contaminated cast aluminum if I ever saw it.

 

The more you talk of this build, the more I'd like to make one, lol. I considered at one time repowering a Work Horse with a Suzuki 1.3L Samurai engine - weighs less than the twin opposed K-482 and pulls 48hp. Not to mention a rpm range north of 7,000rpms, lol. Very small engine footprint, all aluminum and a ton of fun parts available.

 

Sarge

[FatJackDurham 318]

53 minutes ago, pullstart said:

I believe Kohler and Onans have a bearing designed for side load on the crank.  A hydraulic pump or pto would not place the side load, like the traditional WheelHorse belt drive does.

 

But in your photo ,you have a drive belt on. Doesn't that produce side load? Plus, I thought a thrust bearing was for endplay, like in a VW engine, not side load, although it does make sense that any belt driven motor would require bearings that could stand up to side load.

Edited August 23, 2018 by FatJackDurham

[redbeard22 123]

47 minutes ago, Sarge said:

If you plan to weld that aluminum dash - make sure the tig is capable of a lot of ac balance control, you'll need as much cleaning action as possible. I've welded up a few that were badly worn from the hood latch eating into them after a broken frame or dash stand, that stuff is some highly contaminated cast aluminum if I ever saw it.

 

The more you talk of this build, the more I'd like to make one, lol. I considered at one time repowering a Work Horse with a Suzuki 1.3L Samurai engine - weighs less than the twin opposed K-482 and pulls 48hp. Not to mention a rpm range north of 7,000rpms, lol. Very small engine footprint, all aluminum and a ton of fun parts available.

 

Sarge

Thanks for the info i know welding aluminum can be a pain especially dirty low grade stuff, the suzuki engine sounds like a cool idea but would you mount it sideways or inline with the frame. If inline it would need some kind of right angle gear box or something but im sure i would have plenty of room for a small engine like that. Who knows by the time this project is done it mite have something like that mounted in the engine compartment. Did they make those engines carburated? I dont want to mess with a computer and huge wiring harness. Trying to keep it simple and reliable.

[Pullstart 59,537]

Modifying a harness isn’t all that complicated... if you take your time.  Cut all the connections you don’t need, then trace the wires back through the harness and pull them out.  I learned from a YouTube guy named Mick, his screen name is Busaru.  

 

I know it doesn’t apply to WheelHorse directly, but here are some snips of my wire harness hack in the buggy that may apply to a custom engine swap.

 

 

[Pullstart 59,537]

48 minutes ago, FatJackDurham said:

 

But in your photo ,you have a drive belt on. Doesn't that produce side load? Plus, I thought a thrust bearing was for endplay, like in a VW engine, not side load, although it does make sense that any belt driven motor would require bearings that could stand up to side load.

 

Im not sure about the photo, I don’t have any Predator powered tractors at the moment.  I do however have the 22 hp engine on my log splitter and it’s quite amazingly smooth!

[redbeard22 123]

Just now, pullstart said:

 

Im not sure about the photo, I don’t have any Predator powered tractors at the moment.  I do however have the 22 hp engine on my log splitter and it’s quite amazingly smooth!

22hp on a log splitter what do ya use that for to split against the grain lol. That thing would be a monster unless you were running a single speed pump to cycle the cylinder faster.

[WHX?? 46,681]

43 minutes ago, FatJackDurham said:

 

But in your photo ,you have a drive belt on. Doesn't that produce side load? Plus, I thought a thrust bearing was for endplay, like in a VW engine, not side load, although it does make sense that any belt driven motor would require bearings that could stand up to side load.

I kinda think you are missing the power transmission boat here Fat Jack. The drive belt does not put a side load on the crank end (pushingthe crank toward the flywheel)  A electric PTO does not either. A traditional  WH PTO does.

 

Nice work Kev, first pics looks like you got  a real rat's nest there but it cleaned up. I assume the electronics is in the ammo box?

2 minutes ago, redbeard22 said:

22hp on a log splitter 

Really! you splitting Ironwood!?!?

[Pullstart 59,537]

I probably didn’t help with my explanation @WHX20, I think @FatJackDurham had the point but I didn’t.  So the side load is essentially end play in the crank, that a traditional pto loads in OEM applications then?

 

The harness work took about 3-5 days in the bedroom on the floor, before it made its way back to the shop.  It all ended up in the ammo box, out of harm’s way.  I tend to find mud and water quite often with my toys, I was trying to protect it from... well, me!

 

The splitter I acquired with an 18 hp Briggs engine, with a magneto that powers foot or switch controls that run the ram in and out.  The hp designation is surely overkill,  but the charging ability was what I was after when the Briggs gave up the ghost.  But yeah, it’ll split anything it wants ta’!  (Add a Tim Allen grunt here)

[redbeard22 123]

3 minutes ago, pullstart said:

The splitter I acquired with an 18 hp Briggs engine, with a magneto that powers foot or switch controls that run the ram in and out.  The hp designation is surely overkill,  but the charging ability was what I was after when the Briggs gave up the ghost.  But yeah, it’ll split anything it wants ta’!  (Add a Tim Allen grunt here)

 

How many amps does the charging circuit on the predator put out?

[Pullstart 59,537]

Enough to keep the battery charged, and run some solenoid valves...  the load on the system is fairly negligible, I’ve never measured it.