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Red Bull Stripe

310-8 not starting with key

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Just joined but have been here for the past 3 years. I have a 310-8 that had been having starting issues and today got my new starter in the mail. Pulled the old one, installed the new one and bam, started right up! 

 

Drove around to the garage to get dinner and come back out and yup, didn’t want to start - not a click, nothing. Battery has plenty of juice. So after some research here I learned to jump the tractor by connecting the hot on the starter to the positive on the battery while leaving the key in the RUN position. Well, this time it started. 

 

I assume it won’t start for one of the following reasons: the iginition itself is shot, or one of the kill circuits is screwed up (low oil - which the light works btw, PTO - gather it’s not the problem since I could start it, and as well, the clutch but again, started via jump. 

 

I can order a new ignition as the original has been having difficulty turning, but not every time. It’s just the last thing standing for me to try!

 

Any thoughts you guys have would be great. Oh and I’ve seen the wire diagrams from other threads.

 

TIA

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6 hours ago, Red Bull Stripe said:

I assume it won’t start for one of the following reasons: the iginition itself is shot, or one of the kill circuits is screwed up (low oil - which the light works btw, PTO - gather it’s not the problem since I could start it, and as well, the clutch but again, started via jump.

:WRS:

The safety switch on the clutch pedal and or PTO break the start circuit. Most common problem is the PTO switch. "Jiggle" the lever around while trying to start it. 

Go through your wiring by following the diagram and test safety switches and the key switch one at a time until you isolate the problem.

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:WRS:

With any electrical problem the first thing to do is clean and tighten ALL electrical connections including grounds. The replacement of the ignition switch sounds like a good idea as it has presented a problem anyway.

After cleaning and tightening everything, to test other components you can take a small jumper wire from the battery "+" terminal to the small wire on the solenoid. If the engine turns over then the solenoid and the battery cables are good. If there is no cranking use an old screw driver to go across the two large terminals of the solenoid, if it cranks now you know the battery cables are good but the solenoid is bad.

 

Let us know the results and we will go from there.

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Hello there!  As @953 nut and @wallfish mentioned, the electrical system needs troubleshooting.  A $20 volt/ohm meter will bring you a long way in electrical.  Using the continuity setting, like an arrow againt a wall, you can test to see if a switch is making a connection or not.  Voltage is just looking for a channel to run through, you are making sure the gates are in the correct position to allow the voltage through.

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A lot of times the problem is corrosion at the connectors.  Remove and reconnect the connectors on the ignition switch, and PTO ,seat and clutch safety switches.   Do it several times...this cleans the connectors and may fix your problem.

 

:text-welcomeconfetti: to the :rs:

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It could be the solenoid, especially if you jump the starter itself and it starts. They go bad often, but aren't expensive.

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Thanks guys for the welcome and replies, much appreciated. 

 

Last night I pulled off the ignition and hit the tabs with sandpaper to knock off any corrosion - no change. 

 

This morning I tried jiggling the PTO a little and got nothing. 

 

The solenoid is interesting. I inadvertently hit the 2 posts with a wrench the other day and of course sparks flew, but the key was off, so no ignition. Could this have shorted out the solenoid? When I jumped it, I went from the + on battery straight to the starter, not to the solenoid, but I can try that tonight. 

 

Where is the PTO switch located? I couldn't find it last night. 

 

Will also remove, clean and reinstall all connections one at a time. 

 

Perhaps I'll buy a new ignition and solenoid to have on hand and see if those make her fly again. 

 

This is what kills me though - one moment we're good with the new starter firing away, and literally 10 min later, nothing!!

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Red Bull Stripe said:

 

The solenoid is interesting. I inadvertently hit the 2 posts with a wrench the other day and of course sparks flew, but the key was off, so no ignition. Could this have shorted out the solenoid? When I jumped it, I went from the + on battery straight to the starter, not to the solenoid, but I can try that tonight. 

 

Not sure.... I wouldn't think so, but maybe. The usual symptom of a bad soleniod is clicking when you turn the key, or nothing.  

 

One more thing, when you jump it, are you using another tractor or a vehicle? If you are using a car or a truck, NEVER jump the tractor with the car motor running. YOu can blow your rectifier or voltage regulator out. 

 

I have had very similar issues recently. For me, the solenoid was definitely bad, but I also found the starter charging 30 AMP fuse, has gone bad as well. The battery being lower on voltage may have caused a problem with the solenoid originally.

 

Keep at it with your voltimeter. Look at the demystifification guide and follow the starter path. There aren't that many things to go wrong.

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last night I was jumping it directly from the battery straight to the starter - not off another vehicle. Admittedly, I've jumped it off a running car, won't do that again!

 

Before replacing the starter, I would get a single click or two, then it would start sometimes. Other times, it would click and nothing. Now there's nothing at all, and the voltmeter (on the tractor) doesn't move at all when in the start position.

 

Both the 15 and 25 amp fuses are good. 

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47 minutes ago, Red Bull Stripe said:

last night I was jumping it directly from the battery straight to the starter - not off another vehicle. Admittedly, I've jumped it off a running car, won't do that again!

 

Before replacing the starter, I would get a single click or two, then it would start sometimes. Other times, it would click and nothing. Now there's nothing at all, and the voltmeter (on the tractor) doesn't move at all when in the start position.

 

Both the 15 and 25 amp fuses are good. 

That sounds like the solenoid to me. ANyone else think so? Rotory starter solenoids are about $12 bucks at tractor supply. Have a look at how yours connects, see if its all bolts and nuts on all four terminals, or if the lower terminals are spades. Disconnect the batter while changing it, make sure your screws get a good ground connection.

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My belief when it comes to electrical is to follow sequence of operations.  This works with anything that is a circuit... water heaters, furnaces, vehicles, tractors, etc.  Prove power, and prove parts, then you’ll find the problem.  

 

I think that accidentally jumping from the battery to the starter stud only proves that there is a ground and the battery is charged.  Otherwise, there is no “I think” in troubleshooting... if you have a meter.  In this case, a test light would do the trick. 

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Thanks FJD - one of my local shops has one for $13 and I'll get it this afternoon - 435-103_01_Z.jpg?resizeid=11&resizeh=800&resizew=800

 

This is what is shown in the manual, image.png.b2394320b450342aefb384fb9bb9abbb.png  but mine has the tangs, although the posts are vertical, not horizontal. 

 

 

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Replaced the solonoid and it’s getting power but still no power to the starter. Ordered new ignition, should be here in a few days. I don’t see any obvious breaks or corrosion at all the wire fittings!

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there are two small terminals. Only one will make it work.  the other is either a ground or a bypass for ignition.  If you put 12 volts on the small terminal does it click???  if not try the other one.

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5b6a4edcca649_1sol.jpg.2827a7050859c3021b6718bb97454843.jpg

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no click either way! the work continues tonight...btw battery reads 12.45 volts...I know that's not max, but do you guys think that's too low?

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Have you mounted the solenoid? Make sure the mounting bracket is well grounded as well as one of the spade terminals.  12.45 is more than adequate

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THe battery is good enough at that charge. So now, it's time work the other parts. Now, when you say "ignition" you mean the key switch? 

 

Well, once that is done, it only leaves the fuse, the safety switches and the relays.

 

Pullstart is right, though. DO you have a testing meter? You can get an autosensing voltimeter from radio shack or sometimes an auto parts store cheaply. Or you could just get some alligator clips and use a small light like the headlight with some wires. Goodluck. 

 

310-8.jpg

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I picked up a multimeter yesterday, just need to find a way to test the safety switches and relays. The fuses are both good. And yes, by ignition I mean the key switch. I ordered a new one - even if the old one isn't the problem, it's next to impossible to get the key in and out, and turn so now is a good time to replace it.

 

My neighbor's dad knows these machines well and we discussed it a bit last night, eliminating starter, battery, solenoid and fuses as we have here. He's going to help to test the safety switches and see if we can get her running again. 

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Awesome. You know, it's been pointed out here that even if the fuse is okay, the connectors in the fuse block may be suspect due to corrosion, so do continuity tests as well. 

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Good news! After replacing the starter and solenoid with no permanent solution, the new ignition arrived in the mail today and after a quick installation, voila, she fired up!!

 

There was one slight issue, in that the wire coming from the solenoid to the starter was making contact with the mounting bolt for the starter, so after a slight adjustment and tightening things up, were good to go.

 

The telltale sign for me was when turning the key, the volt gauge didn’t budge. When I installed the new one and turned to start without my foot on the clutch, the gauge showed the volts dropping like a rock! Clutch down and she was clicking...hooked up to the car (not running!) for a few minutes, she fired right up.

 

I let her run for a little bit and then there were no problems starting up multiple times afterwards.

 

So, thank you all for your help looking for solutions. The good news out of all of this is that 3 key parts are new and ready for years of service .

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