Still no spark

[Bucko 10]

After installing an OEM Tecumseh coil on my 61 H55 Wheel Horse that a lawn and garden shop repair had located for me (was still in the original box), I still get no spark to the spark plug. I've installed a new plug, and still no spark. I can hold the plug wire end in my hand, and feel a decent jolt when the starter is spun (yea, I know, I should invest in a spark tester), but it will not for some reason jump the gap on any spark plug (have tried two Champion's: one the original J8, the other a brand new CJ8) when it is grounded to the engine, or installed in the engine (can't tell there if its sparking though when installed). I'm getting fuel, as the plug is wet when removed, and even a light spray of starter fluid is doing nothing.

 

I've decided to use the links below, provided to me by member Formariz (from another post), and ordered another coil (this one a WICO), plus a new condenser and new point. I assumed because I could feel a jolt at the tip of the spark plug wire when the engine spun that this current coil, condenser, and point were good, but since I'm not getting a spark at the plug, I figured I might as well replace everything ignition wise from parts below (links), and start over. I hope this solves the spark issue.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WICO-12915-5-5033-COIL-FITS-LAUSON-ENGINES-28259-NEW-OLD-STOCK/262862626885?epid=699605457&hash=item3d33d56045:g:U4AAAOSwfVpYqyD9

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-New-Sorensen-Magneto-Ignition-Condenser-T-301-Wico-x11672-Tecumseh/371835616320?hash=item5693213c40:g:PH8AAOSwA3dYc~Yi

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecumseh-29559-condenser/172799232394?epid=1901641650&hash=item283ba3098a:g:IpwAAOSwhURZfSlx

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TECUMSEH-BREAKER-POINTS-28524-FREE-SHIPPING/123163240889?epid=1101761720&hash=item1cad19e9b9:g:GpIAAOSw44BYdo0c

Edited July 18, 2018 by Bucko

[The Gman 476]

I've taken one for the team many times and held the plug wire, but in the end you can't tell the diff. between 25kvolts and 15kvolts. They both snap you back. Double check the timing. I had a bugger of a time getting my hh60 right. The piston position is so important when adjusting the coil relative to the magnets and that point where the "points" break contact.

[MarkS 122]

I had the same problem. I adjusted and cleaned the points, and replaced the ignition coil and condenser. Still trying to dial in the timing, but it gets great spark now.

[Bucko 10]

21 hours ago, The Gman said:

I've taken one for the team many times and held the plug wire, but in the end you can't tell the diff. between 25kvolts and 15kvolts. They both snap you back. Double check the timing. I had a bugger of a time getting my hh60 right. The piston position is so important when adjusting the coil relative to the magnets and that point where the "points" break contact.

Right now, the two lines "line up" on the plate that holds the ignition coil and the other "battery charging" coils. I saw this prior to the removal of the plate to install the missing ignition coil initially. Now that you mention it, a previous owner had to have removed the plate to remove the ignition coil.

 

So, what is the procedure? Do I remove the head (easy enough to do), watch the piston com to top dead center (TDC), and then? Are the points supposed to just be opening at that point, or opening just slightly before TDC? I saw where I want a .19 gap (about the size of a paper clip) I believe.

[Howie 882]

Unless you have a special dial indicator it is hard to set the timing with the head on. I try to not remove the whole thing to change the coil or

at least mark the post and the magneto before removing it. Can make a scratch mark on both then line back up. If already removed then this

will not work.

 

[formariz 11,849]

Before you attempt to replace anything else you must get timing on it right. Most likely that is why it is not firing if you have spark and fuel. If that area was disassembled most likely it is off.Very finicky engine in that department and unlike a Kohler, time consuming since to try it one has to put everything back. It can be very frustrating. Below is the method that I use from Brian Miller's site. ( an encyclopedia of information for anyone that wants to work on small engines). If you follow it precisely I assure you that it will be correct

 

How to Set the [Points and Condenser] Ignition Timing on an Aluminum Block Flathead Tecumseh Engine - Top of page

First of all, on virtually any spark-ignition engine, advancing or retarding of the ignition timing is performed by widening (advancing the timing) or narrowing (retarding the timing) the ignition point gap, and on all Tecumseh engines with ignition points/condenser ignition, this is performed by rotating the ignition stator (the aluminum part the ignition points, condenser/capacitor and coil are fastened onto) one way or the other. On all aluminum block flathead Tecumseh engines, the entire ignition system is located under the flywheel. (There is no ignition points lobe on the camshaft.) Use a feeler gauge to set the ignition points at .020" with the end of the plastic lever ignition points arm is on the highest side of the rubbing block (ignition points lobe) in alignment with the arrow (6). And make sure the feeler gauge, ignition points contacts and rubbing block are absolutely clean of dirt or debris, too! Also, it's important to apply a small amount of motor oil on the lubricator felt or a dab of lubricating grease on the rubbing block to prevent the plastic actuator lever from wearing, which will eventually retard the ignition timing, resulting in hard starting and loss of engine power. To set the ignition timing, with the cylinder head removed, for all Small Frame Tecumseh engines (up to the small block 5hp; including all walk-behind lawn mowers, certain midsize snowblowers, garden tillers, etc.), rotate the crankshaft in normal rotation (clockwise when facing the flywheel) until the piston is positioned at .070" BTDC. For all Medium Frame Tecumseh 5hp [medium size block] and 6hp cast iron and aluminum block engines, position the piston at .050" BTDC. And for the Medium Frame Tecumseh 7hp, 8hp and 10hp aluminum block engines, position the piston at .090" BTDC. To set the piston at the correct distance in the cylinder, use a dial indicator or use a large flat washer of either .050", .070" or .090" thickness placed on top of the piston with the washer flush with the edge of cylinder deck. With the piston set at the correct distance in the cylinder (do not disturb the rotation of the crankshaft), slightly loosen the two stator retaining bolts, and rotate the stator by hand JUST when the ignition points begin to open. It is at this point when spark occurs. Do not rotate the crankshaft to do this! You can visually see when the ignition points begin to open. For a more accurate setting, use a multimeter set on the Ohms (d) resistance (make sure the battery in the multimeter is fully charged) or use a battery-powered test light in the ignition points, with the ignition points acting as a switch to turn the light off and on. When the timing is correctly set, securely tighten the stator bolts. NOTE: If the ignition timing is set correct and the engine kicks back upon starting, sometimes, but not always, the compression release mechanism on the camshaft isn't releasing enough compression from the combustion chamber. When this happens, try setting the valve clearances to specs (.008" intake / .010" exhaust) and see if that makes a difference. If the timing is retarded to reduce the possibility of kickback, then the engine will be hard to start, run sluggish and not produce adequate power.   To install a solid state electronic magneto ignition module on a small and medium frame Tecumseh engine without a charging stator and ring of magnets under the flywheel, the ignition points will need to be installed as described above only to set the stator in the correct position for the ignition timing, and then the solid state ignition module can be installed. If the stator mounting bolts are loosened and the stator is rotated for any reason, the setting of the timing with the ignition points as described above will need to be repeated. Therefore, it's best to place a scribe mark made with a wide-blade cold chisel against the edge of the stator housing and one or both of the raised bolt bosses on the engine block. This way, the stator can be reinstalled with the chisel mark(s) aligned and the timing will be set correctly. But if the original stator is replaced with one from another engine, the setting of the timing with the ignition points will need to be repeated

Edited July 20, 2018 by formariz

[Anglo Traction 759]

Been  there on an H60 that had been dormant for 30 years on a Tiller. Maybe I was lucky after replacing Points, Condenser and setting the timing as mentioned above.

 

I'm just wondering about the fact that you have some juice to the HT lead. I'm presuming you have a Kill wire on this?, have you tried for a spark with the kill wire removed at the Coil?.

You may be having a ground leakage of the bulk of the current/voltage. Just a possibility.      

[Bucko 10]

On 7/20/2018 at 4:05 PM, Anglo Traction said:

Been  there on an H60 that had been dormant for 30 years on a Tiller. Maybe I was lucky after replacing Points, Condenser and setting the timing as mentioned above.

 

I'm just wondering about the fact that you have some juice to the HT lead. I'm presuming you have a Kill wire on this?, have you tried for a spark with the kill wire removed at the Coil?.

You may be having a ground leakage of the bulk of the current/voltage. Just a possibility.      

Tried that too, even removed the lead from the key to see if that was weakening the spark.

 

I've ordered a new ignition magneto/coil, points, and condenser. This has to work at this point!

[wallfish 15,870]

Weak magnets on the flywheel?