Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hello, this is my first transmission rebuild. It was off a 1972 Raider 12 so I thought it had a limited slip differential and took it apart to see why both wheels were not grabbing. It turns out that it has the 8 pinion differential. There is a damaged bearing, I destroyed the plug for the detent passage and some of the gears have wear but it doesn't look bad to me.

My questions are:

1 - If the other bearings are complete with no damage do I leave them or is there a way to test the amount of wear to indicate whether they should be replaced or not?

 

2 - Where do I get a new 1533 bearing, plug for detent hole, oil seals and gasket and how do I remove the bearing?

 

3 - The gear pictured was the gear with the most wear. Is that perfectly fine to use?

 

4 - I'm guessing that it is a 5091 transmission or a 5073 with the differential replaced. Is there a way to tell what it is for ordering proper parts or are parts going to be the same?

 

Thanks, Tim

20180711_180945[1].jpg

20180712_145754[1].jpg

20180712_152313[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I still have not taken the differential apart so I don't know what I might find there. The transmission functioned fine the little that I used it when I got the tractor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, looks like I can also get seals and gasket. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob is correct...I think we should call it a 5091 transmission that replaced the one that should be there.  In other words...somebody replaced your transmission with an 8 speed.  With that said...you have a typical 8 speed transmission.  Lowell has the 1533 bearings .  If all the needles are in place for the rest ot the bearings, and they feel OK, you will just need seals.  If you think a bearing does not feel right...now is the time to change it out.  :)

 

outer axle seals...1 1/8" axles...SKF #11050

input shaft seal.....SKF #6105

 

if you brake shaft is 3/4"...SKF #7410

case gasket   TORO # 3912

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful. I'll take a good look at the rest of the bearings before ordering anything. I still haven't taken apart the differential but I might have found a 10 pinion with axle shafts. Someone parting a Raider 10 said he'd see if it has the 10 pinion so hopefully it does and it's in good shape. They seem to be a little difficult to find.

Is the wear on the gear an acceptable amount? It looks like it is worn to a bit of an angle unless they are shaped that way originally. It did seem to shift fine the little I used it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's some wear but nothing excessive. I would use it with no worries. :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally got to the differential. The pinion gears look a little chewed up. Are these good to use or should they be replaced? The rest of the differential appeared to be in really good condition. 

Still no luck finding a 10 pinion. I found a decent deal on a Charger 10 but don't really want another tractor sitting around right now that needs repairs.

20180716_162726[1].jpg

20180716_162641[1].jpg

20180716_162556[1].jpg

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely change them. I may have a used set. I will check to see.

Marv

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/13/2018 at 9:38 PM, tntatro said:

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful. I'll take a good look at the rest of the bearings before ordering anything. I still haven't taken apart the differential but I might have found a 10 pinion with axle shafts. Someone parting a Raider 10 said he'd see if it has the 10 pinion so hopefully it does and it's in good shape. They seem to be a little difficult to find.

Is the wear on the gear an acceptable amount? It looks like it is worn to a bit of an angle unless they are shaped that way originally. It did seem to shift fine the little I used it.

I do have a set of pinions. Not perfect but can be used. You are welcome to have them. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Marv said:

I do have a set of pinions. Not perfect but can be used. You are welcome to have them. 

I think I just found a 10 pinion differential in good condition so I may not need them. Thanks for the offer. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the new 1533 bearing in today. It was fairly easy to remove the old one and replace it. 

I hastily bought a 10 pinion differential off eBay before noticing that it was missing the axle gears and cylindrical spring. I guess that was why it was priced low. I did find some good used gears and a new spring. The differential was off a GT-14 and it has some type of collar on the end caps.

 

I have some questions about the differential:

1 - Do the collars come off the end caps and if so, what is a good way to remove them?

2 - Is it okay to use the 8 pinion axle shafts? They are both 11-5/8" and I think the 10 pinion shafts are supposed to be 11-1/4" and 12". I think that it would offset the wheels 3/8" one way.

20180724_122344[1].jpg

20180724_122408[1].jpg

20180724_123017[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The GT 14 didn't use the 1533 bearing.  it had a needle bearing I believe and to make it work thy put a race on teh end of the differential endplates.  It "Should " pull off

  • Like 2
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1st...Paul is right...those are your bearings for the carriage of the differential.  They look to be OK...if they are, I would take out the #1533 and use the ones you have.  Reguardless, they should pull off the end plate without much trouble.  :)  You are correct...the axles in the 8 pinion are the same length.  I think the 10 pinion are only a 1/4" different...not sure, but it will off set your wheels...unless you go with some axle showing on one side...or the hub sticking out a little on the other.  :think: 

   I just hate E-Bay sometimes for what some people pull on other people.  Don't get rid of those parts though.  It seems at least once a month, a member is looking for some of the parts you just bought....especially those pinions.  :)

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did find the missing parts elsewhere but it cost me. Actually, I ended up buying the gears off the same guy that sold me the differential that they went in. It was way cheaper than buying new ones. Then just bought a new spring. I don't think there is any bearing on the end caps, just the race that needs to be removed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are into territory that I am not sure about, and I have not had any practical experience with these.  I suggest you find the manual for your horse on this sight and also find the Service Bulletin that covers the period when Wheel Horse used the needle bearing.  If that is what you have...the bearing is #111199  used in 1985.  Some members may be able to help, but find those Service Bulletins.  :think:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I managed to get the races off by using an oil seal installer. The end plates slide nicely into the new 1533 bearing that I just installed but are a little sloppy in the old one on the other side. When I put an axle through the end plates there is a lot of play compared to the 8 pinion plates though. There is maybe a 1/16" gap compared to maybe a 1/32" gap on the 8 pinion plates. I'll have to check with calipers later to see how much.

20180724_181519[1].jpg

20180724_182642[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I managed to get a second 10 pinion differential with axle shafts but the shafts are a little rough. The picture with two shafts has a shaft from my 8 pinion on the left and the 10 pinion on the right. The picture is a bit blurry but the 10 pinion axle looks much more worn than the 8. When I put the clip on the end it feels really snug but I don't know how it would hold when in use. Any opinions on whether it should hold or not?

The other pictures are showing how much space the ends of the differentials have with the shaft through them. All four have a lot of space like that. The 8 pinion has a much closer fit. Anyone know if that is normal for the 10 pinions or is that excessive wear? I could put a repair sleeve in them but that would be kind of expensive. It almost seems like they are suppose to be like that.

After seeing how tight the new bearing is compared to the opposite side I've decided to replace all the bearings on this one. With the pinion gears all chipped up it makes me think this transmission was beat on a bit. I'm hoping to get it right the first time. 

20180728_121401[1].jpg

20180728_121307[1].jpg

20180728_112108[1].jpg

20180728_112014[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That slop you are referring to is quite normal.  That end plate only holds the differential together.  The "C" clip holds the axle gear onto the axle, which centers itself with the spider gears...or pinions.  In other words, you would not want the differential end plate interfering with how the axle gear runs in between all the pinions.  The axle is held in place by the pinions holding the axle gear on one end...and the outer axle bearing on the other end.  The differential carriage rides on the #1533 ball bearing.  Take a look at what I am saying when you put it together...it will make since, cents, sense.  :occasion-xmas:

   On your axles...you could clean them up with a file so the "C" clip looks like it will hold better.  Not a big deal.  :)  If the "C" clip really bothers you...drill a 1/4" hole and use a roll pin like in the #5025 transmissions.  They never had an axle pull out with this set up.  :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

702 transmission 022.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other thing...the "C" clip has two sides...one side is flat and the other is rounded...the flat side goes toward the center of the differential...facing toward the short end of the axle.  :occasion-xmas:  Makes sense also.  When you really get into it...these transmissions are about making sense...there is a reason they did everything.  :)  "C" clips are cheaper then roll pins.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the roll pin idea but drilling through the axle shaft must be tough. What size drill bit and roll pin?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheel Horse used a 1/4" hole and the roll pin is 1/4" x 1 1/2".  This should work for 1 1/8" axles also.  You just need to make sure you get it out close to the end of the axle.  Dry fit the axle, gear and differential to get an idea of where to drill the hole.  I don't think the axles are hardened and they may drill quite easily.  You could probably go with 1/8" hole and 1/8" x 1 1/2" roll pin if you wanted.  :occasion-xmas:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally got all the bearings to rebuild the 8 speed transmission. I managed to replace almost all the bearings but I have a couple questions about the last couple. This part pictured I believe is called the splined pinion gear. I noticed that some of the gears are crushed and I was also wondering how to get the bearings out. With all the other bearings I was able to drive them out with a socket but these two need to be pulled out the ends instead of being driven right through. 

1 - Should this gear be replaced because of the damage?
2 - What is a good way to get the bearings out?

20180911_205853[1].jpg

20180911_205850[1].jpg

20180911_205841[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tntatro, I just finished rebuilding the six speed in my tractor, and also had trouble getting those bearings out.  My solution was to chuck the gear up in a lathe and carefully reduce the thickness of the bearing until it fell out.  I realize most people don’t have access to a lathe, and am curious how others got their bearings out.  I too tried to press them out, but due to the fact that those bearings sit on a shoulder, I could not get enough purchase on them to do anything but destroy the bearing  housing.  I wish you luck!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Goldnboy
      For those who have repaired 8 speed transmissions what items are the source of failure? Forks? Cluster gear? Bearing?
       
      Water is obviously enemy #1
      Along with no oil as #2
    • By WheelHorseNut
      Hey guys,
      I've started the restoration of my 1968 Raider 10.  I originally found that they didn't make a Raider 10 in 1968 but through discussion with the experts here, we determined that my tractor was a 1968 that was badged a Raider 10 with the 10 HP Tecumseh.
      Here's the starting point picture.
      It was in better shape a few years ago but it was a slight casualty to hurricane Sandy.  Nothing is rusted through, thankfully.  It's unfortunate that it happened and I never expected it to get wet where it was.  We were at least a 1/4 mile from the water -- probably more -- but, I came to work (where it was stored) the following day and we had a garbage dumpster from the business across the street and a boat dock in out parking lot...It was insane and very unexpected.
      Anyway, I've disassembled a bunch of it  and will e-tank the crap out of everything.

    • By pullstart
      So my mom gave us kids cash for Christmas and told us to go find something for ourselves, I took a little 50 some mile road trip this morning and picked up a steel fender C-101.  Overall, it seems to be well taken care of and in great shape!  Except for the connecting rod issue that I knew about before heading to get it.  I have a spare 10 horse that had the carb and starter bits robbed from it before I picked up my 8 speed donor for the 502 so I should be able to use the left overs to get this back running.  Came with a RD deck and a big folder full of service records and receipts.  All in all, this will be a worker and should give me the ability to refresh my 502 without the worry of  downtime!
    • By WH 312-8 Fan
      So, I got the transmission gutted. This is my first gear box of any kind that I have cracked open. So my rookie eyes tell me that any rust of any sort in there probably isn't good?

      I have access to a parts washer at work. I was going to run the transmission casings through once or twice. My main question is, should I press all the bearings out before I run it through? Can I trust a good thorough drying and oiling afterward to keep the needle bearings intact? I'll also have to scrape it out by hand I suppose. Have any of you seen anything like this? worse? Am I over reacting and I should just throw 'er back together?

      See that attached photos for a bit more clarity. 

      Second thing, I don't have the detent assembly out yet so my shift fork rails are still installed. I just popped out the roll pins to get the forks and their gears out. I posted a picture of the 1/4" press in cap on the outside face of the transmission. How the devil do you get that thing out? I imagine you guys have some creative ways to do it? I'll PM Mike in OH as well.

      Thanks for any help!





    • By KyBlue
      I've had this B for quite a few years now, and it's been my constant go to, and ALWAYS starts and is able to do everything I need it to, even when ... it probably shouldn't - haha
      With that being said, it's time that my favorite gets some TLC.  It's going to be slow going ... as I'm still using it as my go to tractor.  Sheet metal first - then I'll do the frame and other bits while the motor is at the machine shop.  Will be using Base/Clear urethane and High build primer (its much more forgiving on the small imperfections when I block it out to be sure its straight)
       
       
      Pictures!
       
      Started with the seat pan ... It is in great shape just the paint is WAY tired so I'm just hitting it with some 60 grit paper on the DA.



       
       
      Geno media blasted this hood for me a week ago, Sandblasting profiles the metal so I had to run the DA over it too, but it's come out alright ... there are quite a few dents that need to be fixed but nothing 'major' - unlike the original hood.  It's just in a self etching primer to allow me to bodywork it.


       
       
       
      Stay Tuned for more!
×