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TC10284

314-8 No spark

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TC10284

I picked up a 314-8 model 73449 with Kohler Command CH14 14HP. The deck has a bad hole on the discharge side, but the tractor itself is in great condition with only 319hr. All that I can find wrong with it so far is that it needs an air cleaner cover, starter cover, and battery hold downs. I also had to fix the oil drain pipe. It was so loose that I could flop it with my hand. Previous owner zip tied a rag around it and just kept putting oil in it...

After I fixed the oil drain, I put in some fresh, clean oil. 

Tried to start it. No fire.

Pulled out spark plug and stuck to metal. No spark. Plug itself looks fine. 

Stuck screwdriver in the wire end and held close to metal. No arc. 

 

When I was picking it up, it fired up for a second and then died out. 

At home it fired up for a second and then died out. Now I can't get it to fire at all. 

 

It is getting plenty of fuel to the carb. I pulled off the line at the carb to check that. I even squirted some gas into the carb to see if I could get it to start that way. No luck. 

 

It has compression. I tested with a compression tester.  

Edited by TC10284

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gwest_ca

If you have the serial number of the tractor that would help. If it is long gone post the serial number off the engine.

 

This engine uses a magneto type of ignition which is self-powered. There is a single ignition wire that grounds out the coil to shut the engine off. This model of tractor uses a battery type of ignition switch to control an isolation relay to ground the ignition to shut it off. Do not allow any battery voltage to enter that ignition wire. It will burn up the ignition coil. 

 

If you can disconnect that ignition wire and isolate it the engine should run. Another reason for disconnection is it should prevent you from accidentally allowing battery voltage into that wire. If the disconnection allows the engine to run you just need to ground the ignition wire to the chassis metal or battery (-) to shut it off.

 

This diagram has one for the ignition alone which makes it easier to follow. A single problem in the ignition controls will prevent it from running. Disconnecting the wires at each component and making sure they are corrosion free, clean and tight may be all that is wrong. 

 

The Kohler service manual if you determine the problem is the ignition system.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Garry

 

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953 nut

The safety switches, Power Take Off switch, transmission neutral, and seat switch, will ground out the ignition if the PTO is engaged and no one id on the seat. Try moving the PTO lever slightly while cranking it over.

If that fails to give  results you will find a set of wires coming from the engine (probably four wires) with a disconnect on it. Unplug this and crank it to see if you have spark. If you have spark the engine is fine and we will have to start eliminating other possible causes like relays and low oil level switches and such that could cause it to not produce spark.

Edited by 953 nut
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TC10284
On 5/31/2018 at 6:42 AM, 953 nut said:

The safety switches, Power Take Off switch, transmission neutral, and seat switch, will ground out the ignition if the PTO is engaged and no one id on the seat. Try moving the PTO lever slightly while cranking it over.

If that fails to give  results you will find a set of wires coming from the engine (probably four wires) with a disconnect on it. Unplug this and crank it to see if you have spark. If you have spark the engine is fine and we will have to start eliminating other possible causes like relays and low oil level switches and such that could cause it to not produce spark.


I tried to move the PTO lever some while cranking and even sitting on the seat. No luck.

I tried to disconnect the wires going to the blue connector in the attached pic. No luck. 

So far the only wires I've found coming from the motor are the ones connected to the right relay(?) in the attached picture. 

 

Also, I've attached a pic with the model and serial.  

IMG_20180528_205050.jpg

IMG_20180602_164709.jpg

Edited by TC10284

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gwest_ca

Your tractor is a 2000 model and the Detailed Wiring diagram above is correct for your tractor. Here is more so you have them. Click on the pictures and download the files from the page that comes up.

Giving this one again so the file names are correct for your files

 

 

This applies to the 1999 models but since your tractor is very early in the 2000 model year (which started in October 1999) it may apply

For the manual pto models have seen this problem show up but don't know if it could affect the pto switch. Seems to me it could. There again it appears to be a 1999 problem but maybe the early 2000 models also.

Looks like you have the reverse key switch system also

I know nothing about this system. Hopefully someone with experience can add to this.

Appears some use a manual pto and some an electric pto. Which do you have?

Garry

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TC10284

Thanks for that! I'll check these out. 

 

Is there anything else you can think of that I can check on? 

 

I also noticed that it looks like someone bypassed the seat safety switch and the reverse mowing switch. The wires look jumped, so I may take the tape off those ends and make sure they're making contact. 

Edited by TC10284
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TC10284

I did some more research and I think I need to clean the points. Anyone know where those are located? 

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oldredrider

That model has a magneto with an ignition module.  No points. 

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TC10284
5 minutes ago, oldredrider said:

That model has a magneto with an ignition module.  No points. 

 

Crap. Now I'm stuck again. 

Thanks for the heads up. 

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TC10284

Update:

I put a different plug in the wire, stuck to metal, saw spark. Put original plug back in the wire, stuck to metal, saw spark. Not sure what changed. 

 

So I put the original plug back in the engine. Was able to get it running with choke all the way out and then pushing it about half way in for idle. 

 

Smoked bad at first. White smoke. Smelled like oil. I think I had too much oil in there according to the stick. Drained some and it finally cleared out. Shows in the safe zone on the stick. 

 

After it warmed up, I could push the choke in to about 1/4 of the way for it to idle. It is sensitive in that if I push it in any further, it will die out. 

But to open the throttle all the way, I have to push the choke all the way in. 

To idle back down, I have to open the choke back to half way, let it settle, then push the choke in to 1/4.

 

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953 nut

:text-bravo:       Sounds like you are a couple of carburetor adjustments away from success.             :handgestures-thumbupright:    

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TC10284
1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

:text-bravo:       Sounds like you are a couple of carburetor adjustments away from success.             :handgestures-thumbupright:    

 

Right! I hope that's all...

So if I have to run it with the choke 1/4 of the way for it to idle, that means it's running too lean at idle. So I need to adjust the low idle fuel needle screw, as well as the Low idle speed screw as it seems to idle a little fast.

 

Looking at the Kohler CH14 manual, I am pretty sure I have the Walbro carb. I'll have to double check that tomorrow. 

The difficult part is that I can't easily adjust these without taking off the air filter plate, which holds the governor cable (IIRC

). 

image.png.b36d5ff158ad9aa315825980af74ddd2.png

Edited by TC10284
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TC10284

No luck. 

I tried turning the low idle fuel adjustment needle from all the way in to I think all the way out and everywhere in between. I still had to keep the choke about 1/4 of the way out to get it to idle without dying. 

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pfrederi

I dislike the fixed jet Walbros...but sounds like yo uhave some crud in your carb.  Serious cleaning is in order.  One of my KT 17s came with a Walbro fixed jet finally got feed up and put on a Chianese knock off adjustable main.  runs much better!!

Edited by pfrederi
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TC10284

Removed carb. Took all apart from it that I could and cleaned with carb cleaner. Blew out jets. Will try installing later today to see if it does any better. 

Edited by TC10284

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TC10284

Yep, cleaning the carb resolved the issue. Runs pretty well now!

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