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Bob Nakon

C120 slippin'

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Bob Nakon

Hi Guys,

  Finally got the TracVac fixed and put back together.  It had me on the ropes for a round but I won by KO.

 

Quite a few of you boys were right on the nose in your diagnosis.  The starboard hub apparently moved back on the axle and the woodruff key tipped up and locked it there.  I guess the lock screws backed off and allowed this to happen, how I don't know.  The lock nuts were tight on the screws.  Tomorrow I'll have to cut off the key as close as I can,  then try to get the hub off.  I don't know what I'll find when I do.  Obviously I need a hub and key for sure. I don't have a manual for the driveline on this tractor, does anyone have a parts list with part numbers?  I would appreciate any help with this.

 

Thanks, Bob

Hub 1.jpg

Hub 2.jpg

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RandyLittrell

We have just about every manual you can think of here. Just scroll down a bit and you will see the manual section. If you can't find yours, someone will be along to help shortly!! 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

Edited by RandyLittrell

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RandyLittrell

Broken woodruff keys are a rite of passion around here!!! Its always at the worst time too!

 

 

 

 

Randy

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Sarge

If the key is still in the slot - just loosen the locking screws all the way out and feed it some oil. Knock the key back down flat into the axle keyway with a small punch and remove the hub. Hopefully, it didn't tear up the axle or hub too much.

 

Sarge

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WHX??

:text-yeahthat:Whatever you do don't pound out on the hub to try and get things off. There is only a clip on the back side of the axle and you really really don't want to knock it off.

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Bob Nakon

Thanks Jim. I haven't gone that far yet. I really don't know what's inside the transaxle.  I went to the manuals area and entered my model and year but couldn't find anything that relates to the hubs.  I think I'll call the Toro dealer and see if they can find the parts.

 

Bob

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gwest_ca

I have not seen what year and model number you have so this is a guess

Start be clicking on the picture

Garry

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Bob Nakon

Thanks for the response Garry. I have a 1977 C120 8 speed.  I looked for a file on the hub assembly and axle I guess but I couldn't find anything. I don't know what's on the other side of the axle seal.  WHX19 (Jim) said to be careful hammering on the hub because there is only a clip holding it.  Good to know.

 

Bob

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Bob Nakon

Another thing I wanted to ask you guys about,  I can't let the clutch out easily and have a smooth engagement.  When I let it out it suddenly grabs and almost does a wheelie. I have the covers off and I took the tensioner pulley off yesterday and it spins freely with no shake. I took the belt off and it looks great, I put it on 2 years ago.  There is nothing wrong visually.  Maybe this has happened to someone else?

 

Bob

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Skipper

I think someone already touched this, but: The belt has to be a good quality belt with fabric outer lining. If it is worn out or just a belt of the "all rubber" design, it will not engage nicely, but just snag on. Belt type and correct dimensions are essential to a good clutch on a Wheel Horse. Your drive belt also has to be a 5/8"

 

Of cause the tensioner pulley and arm has to work correctly also. This I think also has been pointed out. Check the spring mechanism pulling it back, along with axles etc. Check that the pulleys are straight.

 

Can you please report back on what state these things are in. That will take a bit of the guess work out of it.

 

Edited by Skipper
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Bob Nakon

Hey Skipper,

Yeah, I have the covers off and checked it. The belt is oem from the Toro dealer put on 2 yrs ago. Fabric looks great, no wear or worn spots on the belt.  When you say the tensioner pulley has to work correctly you mean it just has to follow the motion of the clutch pedal, right?  It looks ok to me.

 

Bob

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wallfish

Fix the hub first. Measure the axle size. it's either 1" or 1 1/8" and search for a wheel horse hub of the axle size you need.

That axle slipping from the worn hub groove from back to front will suddenly engage traction.

Any rust or paint in the pulley grooves can cause the sudden engagement issue too.

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gwest_ca
3 hours ago, Bob Nakon said:

I don't know what's on the other side of the axle seal.  WHX19 (Jim) said to be careful hammering on the hub because there is only a clip holding it.  Good to know.

 

Bob

You don't want to pull the hub off the axle.

You want to push the axle out of the hub.

And a worn keyway will give you very quick clutch engagement.

 

Garry

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Bob Nakon

It makes sense that it would spin and then hammer into the hub.  That is exactly what is happening.  I ordered the hub today.  It will be in Tuesday, $103.98. It will be nice to fix it.

 

Bob

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WHX??

Ooooh Bob I'm too late... I was going to tell you Toro will be quite proud of theirs. I just got one from a member here for 30 and I know where there are some more for less than 50. Always check with members here first for parts. You might have been a little hasty as sometimes they are savable. If you haven't got the hub off you may want to brush up on some hub pulling threads here first.

6 hours ago, Bob Nakon said:

don't know what's inside the transaxle

Pretty  simple actually, the business end of the axle is splined to a gear which is turned by the pinions. The only thing holding it from sliding out is a circlip which can be easily broke if the hub is pulled in a wrong manner. Heck I have shattered them just taking them on and off with the proper tool. Easy fix when you already have the tranny split for other work.

Capture.JPG

 

Also should mention you may want to do another set screw for insurance, let us know if you need coaching with that. Simple but requires drill & tapping.

Edited by WHX19
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Bob Nakon

As usual, my timing is impeccable...I could have got a BOGO for what I'm paying.  Both hubs on my C120 have 2 lock screws but they must have loosened to cause this. The jam nuts were pretty tight too.  Where did you find the drawing Jim?

 

Bob

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WHX??

It's  a screen snip from a 5XXX  or mid 60's  transmission repair manual Bob, You will have the 103907 tranny in yours but a 5060 is just an decade early one real close in design. The link Garry posted above has your correct manual & IPL in it.

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gwest_ca

You should use new set screws in the hubs also along with new keys.

 

This is from the 1979 B,C and D-Series service manual - good for many model years.

Rear wheel hub set screw torque 28-32 Ft. Lb. or 39-45 Nm

 

The jamb nut should be just snug. Any tighter tends to pull the set screw back out.

 

After it is back in operation for say a day re-torque the setscrews.

Then after say a week.

Then after a month.

It takes use for the parts is find there comfortable position which can reduce the torque. You will know if it takes more torque.

 

Garry

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Bob Nakon

Garry,  I was wondering about torque specs.  It just makes sense right?  Thanks a lot for the info.  I'm kind of embarrassed that I couldn't find the files you sent me.  I really looked for these files but no luck.

 

Bob

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Bob Nakon

So while I wait for my hub to arrive, I'm wondering:  Do you guys use your Wheel Horses as daily drivers, or do you have a orange or green garden tractor in your barn for the lawn and chores?  I'm wondering if these machines are becoming impractical to rely on like I do.  I use mine for Everything!,  mowing, plowing, pulling the landscape rake, my wife hooks up the trailer and drives around doing gardening, we haul all our firewood up all winter with it, so I'm wondering am I expecting too much of a 41 year old tractor?  I don't know if a newer tractor would be more reliable, or if I could do the repairs myself ( with help from my pit crew). Maybe I just need a cheap backup.

 

Bob

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953 nut
21 minutes ago, Bob Nakon said:

do you have a orange or green garden tractor in your barn for the lawn and chores?

Image result for no way no how

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Bob Nakon

Hmmm.....guess not eh?

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ericj

I only use wheel horses for everything, if I had a great big yard I might be forced to look at a Z turn or a sub compact tractor, but as it is I have just slightly less then 1/2 acre. my 60" deck is over kill for my yard lol

 

 

 

 

eric j  

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WHX??
5 hours ago, Bob Nakon said:

So while I wait for my hub to arrive, I'm wondering:  Do you guys use your Wheel Horses as daily drivers, or do you have a orange or green garden tractor in your barn for the lawn and chores?  I'm wondering if these machines are becoming impractical to rely on like I do.  I use mine for Everything

 

Bob

:text-imsorry: Bob but that was kinda a stupid  question .. I have nothing but :wh:. Not that I don't hold a grudge against a guy that may have a JD in his herd , or a nice Speedex or Panzer.....to each his own . My horses do everthing from mowing to tilling to plowing to sno  blowing and every thing in between. Most of my herd are later to early sixties and I work the snot out of all them, even the ones that are "supposed" to be trailer queens and even the ones with marginal hubs/axles, Why you might ask? Because I enjoy  wrencking on them almost as much as seat time. :) With the help of my bros on RS here even 60 year old parts are no longer made of unobtainium. 

 

That was a good typo .... wrencking ...sounds like I am wrecking as much as wrenching Sometimes not far from the truth! :lol:

Edited by WHX19
Typo
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ronhatch

Bob, Before we go off in a different direction I want to know; Did you do what Sarge suggested in post #29 and remove the hub or did I miss a post saying that the hub is off the axel?

 

Edited by ronhatch

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