Jump to content
Bob Nakon

C120 slippin'

Recommended Posts

Bob Nakon

Hi Gents,

 

    My C120 is surging, like it goes and then it coasts and then it catches and goes....etc. I have been advised that it is likely the key in the hubs. Does anyone have a drawing of this hub ? Is it a square key or a Woodruff key? Are the hubs difficult to remove?

Thanks for any help, Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi

It is a woodruff key.  If it is surging because the keyway has gotten sloppy then the hub will usually come off easily...but you will probably need a new hub or even a new axle if the keyway has been badly damaged

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

Along with what Paul said...assuming this is a manual transmission...the hubs and the hub bolts with lock nuts would be the 1st thing to check.  For a drawing...go to the Manual section on the main page and look for your year and model number.  It  could be a worn belt or worn clutch spring.  Some more information and a picture (we love pictures) would help.  :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Bob Nakon

Thanks for the response guys. I went over the tractor 2 years ago and replaced a lot of worn parts. I put on a new main drive belt, new clutch spring did a lot of adjusting and so on. What I don't get is when I go down a slight grade it just starts to coast til it levels off and then the drive kicks in. I'm thinking the easiest thing is to check the hubs, right? What if one key is sheared off but the other is not, would it act like this?

 

Bob

  • Like 1
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
RandyLittrell

When my 1277 throws a woodruff key it doesn't move. The one axle just spins. 

 

I don't thinks its a woodruff key, but I would check that first. 

 

 

 

 

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

Bob...I am starting to think you do not have a problem.  Wheel Horse with their belt drive would really act like what you have going on.  I think in their manuals, they suggest that you only go up hill and not down.  A little more history here would help us...like how long have you had this horse?  did you mow with it OK before and now something is not right??  Did you change things (like he belt) because of what you have going on??  Tell us what you think is going on with some history of your horse.  :)

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Bob Nakon

Stevasaurus, I have owned this tractor for 15 years. I use it for everything. It has always run well and never done this hesitation thing before.  I replaced the belt because the old one was making noise and I decided to replace/adjust everything else that it needed. I know something is wrong. If a sheared key in one hub shuts down the machine then it has to be something else. I'm thinking the tensioner/idler whatever pulley behind the right-side cover. Or maybe something in the transaxle? I hope not because that is one area I have never gotten into, except for topping it off.  I'm replacing the turbine housing on my TracVac right now and not having any fun with it. Set screw on the turbine won't come out. Tomorrow I'll go after it with a carbide drill and hopefully it comes out. Then the C120, although I'm really not sure what is wrong now.

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut
1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

I think in their manuals, they suggest that you only go up hill and not down.

Image result for confused  How will I get back down to the Barn?

  • Like 2
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Bob Nakon

I think a high-banked oval in a steady left turn just kinda creep down ½ a lane at a time. Made for retired Nascar drivers.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

Have we verified this is a gear drive?     Sounds like the common Sundstrand  drift to me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Bob Nakon

Hi Ed, It is an 8 speed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

Does it drift in all gears Bob?  

I would look at the tranny input shaft key.

Edited by Ed Kennell
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Bob Nakon

Yes Ed, it does it in all gears. Uphill it is fine but on level ground or a down slope it happens.

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
KC9KAS

I started a comment before reading the entire thread....then I had to enter something!

Edited by KC9KAS
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut
7 hours ago, Bob Nakon said:

Yes Ed, it does it in all gears. Uphill it is fine but on level ground or a down slope it happens.

 

Bob

If it is pulling fine up hill I doubt that it is a broken key anyplace. Going down hill the engine compression is attempting to hold you back, but on a steep grade it would not be sufficient in any gear. I have a very precipitous portion of my driveway that will over rev the engine in any gear if breaks are not applied. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
stevasaurus

It is not the transmission.  It has to be something with the belt and pulleys.  Make sure the belt is the right one and the right width.  It should be a cloth covered belt also.  Take off the guard and belt and clean the pulleys with mineral spirits.  You are going to have some drift with a belt drive system, but it should catch up before you level out.  You probably are doing this already, but if not, I think using 1st gear when going down hill should help. 

   I hope the advise works for you Bob.  I can't test it out here in Illinois...we don't have any hills.  Illinois is flat.  :occasion-xmas:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Bob Nakon

 stevasaurus, I'm thinking you are right.  I'm going to check the hubs, put a mark on the shaft and hub and see if they shift.  Then I'll take off the cover and look at the belt.  I get all my parts from the Toro dealer and the belt is dealer stock, no substitutions. It could be the tensioner pulley I guess, it is spring loaded as I remember. I wish I had a diagram.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
WHX??
1 hour ago, Bob Nakon said:

I wish I had a diagram.

Have you got the manuals Bob? Might be one  in there? Get some pics of how the belt is routed and put them up for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
953 nut
3 hours ago, Bob Nakon said:

I wish I had a diagram.

This manual could be helpful.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
roadapples

On the opposit side of the tension pulley check the spring pin holding the clutch lever to the same shaft. Had one shear off on  my loader tractor. Sometimes it would work and sometimes not. Gave me a fit 'till I stumbled on to it...:bitch:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

:text-yeahthat:  Me thinks Jay is the winner.             I actually bought a tractor for cheap.   The PO said the 8 speed was bad.   I found the 1/8" spring pin sheared.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ronhatch

Bob;, Pull the hubs and trans drive pulley, check the keys and keyways,then let us know what you find.  thanks,  Ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ohiofarmer

  I went through this with mine having the exact same symptoms. The woodruff key had widened the slot in the axle. My best guess is that it had about eight inches of play in the wheels to the ground..  Your axles are also damaged. My tractor had been used for snow pushing and I think that activity is hard on the axle keyway.

 

 One of our members here made a copper woodruff key and added weld around it to repair the axle.  The copper key idea is that weld will not stick to copper.  Mine was repaired with JB weld [put Pam cooking spray on a new woodruff key so it is not welded to the axle] which is fine for mowing grass but not for pushing snow. If you keep using the tractor in its present condition,your wheel hub will break. DAMHIK

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
kasey54

I've had something similar on a b-80 , and an 875. One gear drive, one hydro . I don't think either was as  badly worn  as yours is. On each tractor the issue was the fit of the woodruff key between the axle and the hub. On close inspection I determined each had a bad key way in the hub , and a worn key. While I'm sure the axle's must have had some wear also, they fit with new keys quite well. I had access to a broach kit and made new key ways in the hubs. I installed new woodruff keys , drilled and tapped new set screw holes into the hubs at the new key ways, and added a second set screw because the hubs were thicker where the original key way was. It really surprised me how sloppy the  old seemingly not too worn key was in the new key way of the hub The new key fit the original slot in the axle with no feel of slop. I assume as brand new the key would have been tapped into the axle slot. I tightened them well with new set screws with the concave tip that cuts slightly into the shaft , or key when you tighten them . loosen them . and tighten them again. Incidentally  when I jacked each side up and rocked each wheel to see if it was loose (before the fix) the loose ones were easy to feel. Its been two years now and each is still working fine with no loosening. Hope you beat it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
wallfish

Up hill the key grabs the sloppy worn hub slot, down hill the key is forced to the back of the sloppy hub slot then surges to the front when it levels off. Flat ground while turning, it's gonna do the same thing as going down hill. The key isn't sheared off, yet. But if one or both of the hub slots are worn, it could cause this condition.

That pin Jay suggested is a good place to start too but it seems belt slipping would probably happen more while going up a hill.

Could a cracked frame at the trans also cause this condition?

IF, the axle and hub key slots are worn. Could you just drill and tap holes 1/2 way in each piece then lock it with long set screws? (backyard hammer mechanic style) Those axles may be hardened and tough to drill. If so, the drill bit will want to drift into the softer hub.

Probably not the proper fix but to me if both pieces need to be replaced anyway, no harm no foul. Hopefully the axle is good and replacing the keys and hubs will do it. It could be just one side.

Just kind of "thinking out loud" and typing it. 

hub.jpg.7636c99ee9518b58fef16884510e17a4.jpg

 

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...