Jump to content
JP56

Trying to Identify my horse to get service manuals for all areas of it

Recommended Posts

JP56

I purchased what I was told by the seller, to be a "partially restored" 1975 C Series. I have it now for 3 seasons & have concluded that this restoration consisted of replacing a few bolts and repainting it and replacing some of the decals. The seller told me he "screwed up" on the Model Decals when he ordered them, & put the wrong one on it (C120), but did not tell me the correct one that should be on it, and he gave me a 1975 C Series Owners Manual with it. I am wondering if the Model Numbers correlate to the horsepower of the engines. If that is the case, I must have a C100, because mine has the Kohler 10 HP engine, which is labeled as a K241S. It has an 8 Speed Manual Transmission.

 

After getting it home and using it, I put it in my shed & the next time I went to use it, I see the transmission/gearbox has leaked oil onto the shed floor, appears to be coming from the seam between the two halves of the rear-end. I also see a heavy black greasy film build up at both axle seals & also around the brake drum seal. I am now in doubt of the recommended oil for the rear end. Some of the online forums say that they had begun using transmission fluid as a replacement for older types of lubes, while others say 10-30 motor oil. I saw someplace which I can't seem to find again right now, that 85W-140 gear lube was what should be used. The oil level on the dipstick has not dropped to low levels, and appears to be motor oil, so after searching around and also checking the manual given to me with the tractor, I top off the level with 10W-30 as spec'd on page 5 of the manual(if this is indeed the right manual for my year and model). 

 

My problem now, is that last season, it suddenly seemed to get a bit sluggish & slow down as it gets warmer during use. I believe my sluggishness problem might be due to the leak in the box seam and possibly also the type of fluid/lube in the case of the transmission/gearbox. I had already tweaked the carb as best I could, changed the fuel filter, replaced the spark plug due to a hard starting condition and rough running, & it seems to be running fine right now except for a backfire when shutting it down. I have purchased a replacement carb for it that I have to put on now, & I am pretty sure I need to locate & change the points as well. 

 

Anyway I am hoping that someone can point me towards the right manuals, by placing all numbers I have been able to find on it here so I can hopefully find the right service/repair manuals (hopefully as free downloads someplace online) for the different systems. 

 

Tractor:

Model: 103909

Serial Number: 47404

 

Engine:

Model: K241S

Specs: 46636D

S/N: 6097616

 

Deck: 0542M505

 

All Numbers on Transmission/Gearbox Casting:

A24

8163 or B163 ?(Cannot Read Clearly)

101761 or 1017G1 ?(Cannot Read Clearly)

 

Any and all advice/info anyone can supply me with on this would be greatly appreciated! Also, any tips on good places to purchase reasonably priced parts would be good as well.

 

Edited by JP56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Sparky

So could the model number be 1-0390 ?

  If so...1974 C Series Garden Tractor Raider 10 8-Speed Kohler K241S-46636D.

  If it is in deed a manual trans machine then 80-90 weight gear oil is fine, 10w-30 is to thin. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

K-241S  =10HP  w/electric starter

engine s/n 46636D = 1974

tractor s/n 1-0390 = 1974 Raider 10   w/ 8 speed Wheel Horse # 5091 transmission

85-140W gear oil is the correct lube for the gear transmission.

ATF or 30W oil is only used in the hydraulic transmissions.

Edited by Ed Kennell
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
gwest_ca

Raider 10 in Europe and a C-100 8-speed in North America

A later service manual but you will find it useful

Garry

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
JP56

Sparky, Ed & Garry,

Thanks for the really fast replies and for the great files! Much appreciated! I had a 1971 horse years ago that was quite old but did a great job until it died on me. It was pretty old and not very well kept when I bought it from the son of an old man that recently died, and the deck was perforated all over beyond repair too but I loved the power and the way the 3 blade deck cut the grass.

After that I had a new K-Grow which sucked, got rid of that the got a new Craftsman which sucked even worse, so dumped that in favor of this old horse.

I want to redo the transmission case gaskets (I think it was put together metal on metal w/o a gasket) & seals, and hope to be able to find the sheet metal covers for the deck belts & spindles and possibly some wheel weights for it, since it seems to want to spin the tires too much.

Hopefully the case overhaul and new heavy oil will eliminate my sluggish performance. I love the old horses!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Sparky

If the motor doesn’t skip a beat but the tractor seems to lose umph...I would check that the drive belt isn’t shot and that the clutch pedal return spring is in good working order.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

I would certainly change the points and the condenser.  Decreasing performance with higher engine temperature could be a spark issue.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
JP56
36 minutes ago, Sparky said:

If the motor doesn’t skip a beat but the tractor seems to lose umph...I would check that the drive belt isn’t shot and that the clutch pedal return spring is in good working order.

Belts are one of the problems. With what I had found before the info I got today, I ordered 2 belts and only one of them fit. Can't remember if it was the main belt under the side cover that fit ot not.  Am printing out the manuals I got here today and will be going through to find the right belts for replacing them all.

 

Edited by JP56
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
JP56
7 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I would certainly change the points and the condenser.  Decreasing performance with higher engine temperature could be a spark issue.

Thanks! I do intend to do just that as well as put the new carb on. I am guessing that the original carb was messed with to the point that you can't set it as well as you should be able to anymore. Any tips as to places for ordering parts? The engine seems to run pretty good, and I possibly didn't describe what I mean by sluggish. It seems that on start up and first beginning to  cut, the thing moves along at a good clip. But as I am mowing and it gets hotter, the speed seems to get much much slower. The engine doesn't seem to sound any different, like it's missing or slowing down or racing, just the tractor seems to be moving much slower the warmer it gets. That's why I was suspecting the gearbox and fluid, because of the oil leaks and not knowing exactly what oil is in it to begin with. I very much appreciate any tips, hints or clues. I have been so darned busy here lately I haven't even had a chance to pull it out & start it yet as I am swamped with work around here and getting older & slower! I do know I need one or two of the belts replaced, the carb changed and the leaks fixed though. Just a matter of figuring out the exact part numbers I need and finding where the best place to get them is, price wise & speed of delivery wise. The front tires were leaking air since I first got it, so I pulled them & put in those "Slime" tubes and they work great! Hated the thought of getting new tubeless tires when the treads were still so good. A lot of small quirky stuff to be done on it though, like having to wiggle the shifter or roll the tractor a bit once in a while to get the gears to shift. I have been my own car mechanic for 46 years now & the only thing I haven't done on a car myself is rebuild a tranny. There tractors are completely new animals to me when it comes to working on them though. I suspect maybe some spacers are worn or missing causing the shifting glitch, or possibly some of the linkage points are too worn & need replacing. I had hoped to do a tear down on it this past winter, but time and a few health issues put the cabosh on those plans, & suddenly it's time to cut the grass very soon now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
JP56
44 minutes ago, Sparky said:

If the motor doesn’t skip a beat but the tractor seems to lose umph...I would check that the drive belt isn’t shot and that the clutch pedal return spring is in good working order.

When you say drive belt, are you referring to the one under the cover on the side? I will check the clutch spring as well. I had to completely take the deck apart last season and clean it thoroughly because of rust & crud gumming up the sliding mechanism. I also know a lot of the rods, pivots etc are worn and need some adjusting & or replacing as well. The tractor just seems to move a bit slower as you go along & it gets hotter, but no change in sound or feel of engine. I am guessing it is the belt if not the transmission oil leaks & whatever oil he had put in there before selling it to me. I need to find parts sources with decent pricing and fast availability & delivery times now that I found some good manuals from the replies here. Any places you prefer to use for parts? By the way, Bethel CT here.

 

Edited by JP56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ed Kennell

If the engine RPM is not changing, and the tractor speed is decreasing,  something in the drive train has to be slipping.

Several possibilities are:

1. the tractor drive belt is slipping due to wear or a weak idler spring or bad idler pulley bearing

2. one of the axle keys is sheared allowing the hub to spin on the axle

3. the transmission input shaft key has sheared allowing the drive pulley to spin on the shaft

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
JP56
8 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

If the engine RPM is not changing, and the tractor speed is decreasing,  something in the drive train has to be slipping.

Several possibilities are:

1. the tractor drive belt is slipping due to wear or a weak idler spring or bad idler pulley bearing

2. one of the axle keys is sheared allowing the hub to spin on the axle

3. the transmission input shaft key has sheared allowing the drive pulley to spin on the shaft

 

Thanks Ed

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Sparky
2 hours ago, JP56 said:

When you say drive belt, are you referring to the one under the cover on the side? Any places you prefer to use for parts?

 

Yes, that's the belt I'm referring to. With the demise of the few local Wheel Horse /TORO dealers near me I have resorted to ordering from on-line suppliers. Partstree...RCPW...Jacks Small Engine Warehouse....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • jmack
      By jmack
      I’m looking for a transmission dipstick to a D-180. Let me know if you see one. 
    • Doug B
      By Doug B
      Hey guys,I have a dilemma I need some help with. I have a 1969 GT 14 that I replaced the transmission and pump on. For about 2 weeks afterward everything worked great, but while mowing at a pretty good pace I noticed a shudder and the tractor slowed a little but not bad. The more I rode it the slower it got until it barely moves. What stumps me is the hydraulics are still very strong,as in I can back the 3 point under the bumper of my truck and if you lift the arms all the way up the front wheels of the tractor will clear the ground. Have checked the tow valve and checked the internal filter,but no luck. I have also checked and replaced the forward and reverse bypass springs and the lever is moving the cam to full travel, forward and reverse. Any help would be appreciated.
    • mattd860
      By mattd860
      I have developed a kit that allows a Wheel Horse / Toro hydrostatic tractor to be operated by a pedal on the right side of the tractor. The original forward/reverse lever can be retained or removed. The kit includes everything needed to install the pedal kit and installation is simple with the help of a downloadable installation manual. Additionally, only one (1) 1/4" hole will need to be drilled which can be done by a hand drill. No other drilling or cutting will be necessary. Any tractor with this kit can be converted back to stock without any visible evidence that kit was installed. However, you'll never want to do that

      The kit operates very simply and similar to modern tractors. When the pedal is pushed forwards the tractor will move forwards. When the reverse pedal is pressed downwards, the tractor will moved in reverse. If the operator takes his foot of the pedal at any time, the pedal will automatically center itself and the hydrostatic transmission will return to neutral (stop). This enables the operator to use both hands on the steering wheel or one hand on the wheel and the other operating an attachment like a snow blower, plow, etc.

      The foot pedal is custom cast in Aluminum, uses brass bushings to minimize wear, and it closely matches the OEM Wheel Horse BRAKE pedal commonly found on 8-speed manual transmission tractors. Modifications were done to the pedal to add the reverse pedal and adapt the pedal to the rest of the kit. For the most part, the pedal looks like it was designed and manufactured by Wheel Horse / Toro. Additionally, a grease fitting has been adapted to the pedal to further minimize wear and tear and if the brass bushings ever wear out they are fully replaceable without having to buy a whole new pedal. 

      The pedal kit fits the following series tractors with Eaton hydrostatic transmissions: C-1X5, 300, 400, 500. 
       
      My kit can be adapted to older hydrostatic tractors with the Sundstrand transmission, however, you will need to find an updated hydro cam commonly found on ebay. Message me for more information. 
       
      Here is a link where you can download the installation manual: CLICK HERE
       
      I am selling these kits for $330 shipped to anywhere in the United States. I offer multi order discounts as well. I will also sell to other countries for additional shipping charges to be determined.
       
      If anyone has any questions please feel free to PM me or post your question here and I will be glad to help. Or you can email me at mattdarling02@hotmail.com.

      Thanks!
       
       
      Below are pictures of the complete kit and the pedal installed on the tractor. Some modifications have been made since these pictures were taken. For example, the reverse pedal is now cast in aluminum instead of the steel pedal shown below. 
       

       

       

       

       

       
    • Dylan2342
      By Dylan2342
      New here! hello everyone! In a bit of a pickle here. My father owns a 1993 (I think that is the right year) 520H Wheel Horse. I don't commonly work on tractors but it seemed simple enough. the axle snapped on the left side, so it needed a new transmission. My dad bought a used transmission and I went to work changing everything out. The hydraulic pump that the engine's drive belt attaches to went to a different model/year of tractor, so I had to remove that part and swap it in from the old transmission. In the process I lost all of the oil in the pump (I mention this because I wonder if it has to do with my problem I'm having). When I reassembled everything I started the slow process of filling the transmission. I filled it up and started the engine. When moving the lever forward or backward, it had a tiny bit of power for a little bit and then lost power. The transmission wasn't doing anything, anymore. I though maybe that hydraulic pump needed to be primed, so we took the top hydraulic line off of the hydraulic pump right above the drive belt and used a transfer pump to pump some oil into the pump case. This still didn't work. I don't have enough experience with these hydrostatic transmissions to know if we got a bad transmission or if there is something obvious that I am missing when it comes to a transmission swap. I ask for any insight and help please. If you need pictures or any other info, then let me know what you need. Thank you!
    • Porkskin
      By Porkskin
      I have no understanding of what it is like to push one of these when the trans is disengaged and motion lever is in the forward position as the manual mentions. I hope this is not old ground and that I am not cross posting. With the trans disengaged and motion lever set forward there is still something spinning in and about the transaxle that is giving resistance. I need to know if this is normal or if I should be expecting more of a free wheeling experience. In effect, much less resistance. Thank you for comments or pointing me to a topic that already covers this. 
×
×
  • Create New...