Jump to content
cpete1

? on demise of Wheel horse

Recommended Posts

cpete1

I just finished clearing my driveway for the umpteenth time and as usual the WH handled the 14" of wet snow like a champ. I can't get over the simplicity and effectiveness of the design of these tractors. I keep seeing posts about tractors that have been in families for multiple generations. And restorations that continue to perform like they did when new. I haven't had the chance to get one of the books on the history of the WH so I'm in the dark about it some. 

 

So my question is, Just what caused this design to be set aside. Was it the cost to manufacture, peoples lack of understanding of the longevity of the tractor and its implements, Competition from "cheaper" designs? They're so easy to work on and attach implements to.  And there literally is countless "testimonials" to their durability. There used to a be a Toro dealership not too far from me that was the "GO TO" place for parts and such (Grassland). Its still there but the wheel horse presence is all but gone. 

 

I realize there are people who are making new parts for the tractors but what do you think it would cost to remanufacture an equivalent in todays market? 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ebinmaine
5 minutes ago, cpete1 said:

I just finished clearing my driveway for the umpteenth time and as usual the WH handled the 14" of wet snow like a champ. I can't get over the simplicity and effectiveness of the design of these tractors. I keep seeing posts about tractors that have been in families for multiple generations. 

 

So my question is, Just what caused this design to be set aside.

 

Was it the cost to manufacture,

 

peoples lack of understanding of the longevity of the tractor and its implements,

 

Competition from "cheaper" designs?

 

They're so easy to work on and attach implements to.  And there literally is countless "testimonials" to their durability. 

Pete, you've kind of answered your own question by asking the question.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
cpete1

I realize some of this Eric but I think the design of the Wheel horse, (Angle iron main frame) wouldn't be all that much more expensive to build versus a stamped frame you see on todays "tractors". They really seem to be pretty simple and well thought out, although I'm certain the Wh transaxle would be far more expensive to make than the tuff-builts.  I would think there would be a demand for something as effective as this.  I just don't get it... They work so well...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Dan693

Lane posted a WH ad from about 1960 when they sold for $300. That would be $2600 today for what that's worth.

 

Without knowing......as with many family businesses they may have gotten an offer from AMC in 1974 that they just couldn't refuse.

Also they may have just wanted out of the business after decades.

Edited by Dan693
edit text
  • Like 4
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
Retired Wrencher

I Guess the only thing we can do is just enjoy them for what they are. Keep them running by what ever means possible. Enjoy the ride.

  • Like 8
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Chris G

I think the hardest part would be to get people to realize the quality of what you built, and how dependable it is. Because the people who know how good they are, already have one or two of them  And don't mind busting knuckles or so on to keep them alive. Unfortunate to say but people are more comfortable with buying throw away junk now days. Putting work into things to make something nice for yourself is just not as common as it use to be. I know there's a lot of Horse-a-holics here, but there are way more people out there that make our throw away society a success for box stores.

Edited by Chris G
  • Like 5
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
lynnmor

People don't want to work on anything today, the throw away tractors fit the bill nicely.  Even if the best Wheel Horse ever made was still in production, it would die from neglect just the same.

  • Like 5
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Pullstart

They don't make 'em like they used to...

 

There's a fine line between quality product and range of longevity.... It is probably true that they out qualitied themselves!  All I know, is I'm thankful that I found my first Wheel Horse on CL and took a gamble at bringing it back to life as a worker back in 2013, now I'm finally getting around to a partial restoration after these 4-5 years of modifications.  And to think, I really only bought it because I needed to mow my yard!  Little did I know, the various attachments and true quality goes on for a long time!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Sarge

Times have changed, most folks work a lot of hours and give their off time to other things now. Less and less of the newer generations are taught to work with their hands - the market has changed to reflect that. We have been taught as a society by marketers to spend money instead of repairing things and become a disposable consumer source of income. Parts are becoming non-existent for many items now, they would rather we just replace with new and drive us further in that direction as much as they can. The few of us left that don't follow that mindset end up in places like this.

 

Wheel Horse, as a brand contributed to it's own demise in a way. They lasted too long and since the design included retrofitting kits to the mix they made themselves somewhat obsolete. It's not unusual to see mid 60s tractors wearing late model attachments,  which didn't help sell new machines. Very few brands built their equipment backward compatible,  it's what kept them going with a larger market share. It's a shame someone else didn't buy the brand in '73 and keep it going in the original direction,  I'd bet they would have been a bigger player today.

 

Sarge

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
T-Mo

There are a lot of factors that contribute to this.  Take a look at Case/Ingersoll.  Case sold their L&G line to Ingersoll back in the early to mid 80s.  Ingersoll did not change the design of the tractors, but kept them pretty much intact except for engine upgrades throughout the years.  The tractors became more and more expensive and therefore, less of them were sold.  Ingersoll went into bankruptcy a few years back (circa 2005 or so).  A few years later, Eastman Industries bought them and kept the design intact and began manufacturing them again.  Right now, I'm not sure where they're at.  Dealers are sparse and few and far between.  They had eliminated some unique attachments and prices are still very high.  But, the tractor is pretty much bullet proof like they have been since day one back in the early 60s.  The problem is, no one can afford to buy them or don't have the understanding of what they're getting for the price.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
oldlineman

One word  CHINA!  People think cheap is better, buy and throw away generation. I am 66 years old and I grew up like many of you laying on the ground beside your dad ( my dad just passed away Feb.18 at 931/2, a WW II, U S Army, combat medic ) working on whatever,so we didn't have to spend the money we didn't have on a new one. I still have that outlook. Too easy to just buy a new one.  Old Bob   :twocents-02cents:

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
T-Mo
1 hour ago, 1995 520H+96+97 said:

Yes.  I have been in contact with Ingersoll, but it's been a couple of years ago or close to it.  They shut down, temporarily, production at one point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
js5020

Once you breech a certain price point it just makes more sense to go sub compact in my opinion and get diesel, 4wd, diff lock, 3 pth , quick change loaders and drive over mower decks.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
NJhorses

Also a lot of people buy a box store model then decide to hire out the mowing or whatever they want done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ericj

another part that nobody mentioned, is that we don't put out gardens anymore and if we do we buy a separate machines for each task. people don't have the time to mow their lawns, so they either hire a landscape company or buy a zero turn mower to get it done quickly. 

 

 

 

 

 

eric j

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ohiofarmer

 I blame Toro for a lot of it. I have some simply designed Horses and much prefer them  for ease of maintenance a solid body work. For example, the seat on the 520H cracked off the mounts and nearly dumped me in a ditch and also some poor design on an idler for the transmission that wore an egg shaped hole on the transmission tunnel. All the little hardware stores and such that sold Wheel Horse were told by Toro to put in the modern parts fiches and software and i think that just killed it for them as company requirements became too expensive.

 

 When [Toro]Wheel horse sales started lagging, i remember that everyone just had to have a Dixon. I think that Dixon just changed a lot of minds on what people wanted out of a mower. I think what they want the most is shiny paint now. Look at some of the mowers at the box stores. Plastic transmission cases--i kid you not. Now the manufacturers seem to compete against themselves by putting cheap versions of their commercial products in the box stores. The customer is then shocked when he takes his Home Depot version of a john Deere tractor to a John Deere dealer to get repairs or order parts...

 

. Out here in Deploraville where i live, there is sort of a competition where everyone mows the road ditches like their lawns. Some of the farmers even keep the ditches along the corn and soybean fields mowed real nice for a half mile... Not real easy for a zero turn to hold a line in a steep ditch like a tractor will. That is why the garden tractor survives.even if to just supplement a zero turn used on the flats

All this stuff is just my best guess and opinion, so who knows? Have a good evening

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
WheelHorse79

I think once John Deere and Cub Cadet became really established in the L&G market, they really began taking sales away from Wheel Horse.  Both John Deere and Cub Cadet (thru IH) had national dealership and parts distribution networks already in place which gave them big advantage.  In spite of its expansion, Wheel Horse was really a mostly mid-western distributed product.  Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania seem to have the lion's share of the Wheel Horses.  I believe if Wheel Horse could have distributed their product nationally, they could have plowed the extra earnings back into the product to keep up with John Deere and Cub Cadet among others.  In my opinion, when Toro released the 500XI series which were not true Wheel Horse products, they threw in the towel and let other L&G manufacturers develop product for them.  Just my $.02...

Edited by WheelHorse79
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
cpete1

Well, I've read all the replies at least 2 times and every one of them makes a valid point. I don't know if I would have been so supportive of wheel horse had I not owned one. I didn't know it would turn out to be the tractor that it is. I've used mine for just about everything from keeping my driveway clear to building my house. I grew up on a dairy farm so I was around equipment all my life, Was raking hay  with a MF 50 when I was 8.  

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:36 AM, Retierd Wrencher said:

I Guess the only thing we can do is just enjoy them for what they are. Keep them running by what ever means possible. Enjoy the ride.

I guess that's the best we can do and hope others or some one amongst us has the means to fill in the gap as the vendors do and make stuff available to keep our machines running. It just seems a shame  that such a good design with so much history of successful performance is passed by . Any decent mini tractor is going to cost at least 10K, not exactly chump change. And the stuff they sell today that they call Garden tractors isn't even close to the what the WHs have to offer.  

With all the new technology out there, I'm hoping it gets easier to manufacture parts in small quantities at less cost, ( 3d printers, mini cnc machines) . I have realized one thing as a result of this forum, there is a tremendous amount of exceptionally in-genius talent out there mechanically speaking and the place to tap into it is right here.

  • Like 5
  • Excellent 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
T-Mo
11 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

 

 When [Toro]Wheel horse sales started lagging, i remember that everyone just had to have a Dixon. I think that Dixon just changed a lot of minds on what people wanted out of a mower. I think what they want the most is shiny paint now. Look at some of the mowers at the box stores. Plastic transmission cases--i kid you not. Now the manufacturers seem to compete against themselves by putting cheap versions of their commercial products in the box stores. The customer is then shocked when he takes his Home Depot version of a john Deere tractor to a John Deere dealer to get repairs or order parts...

 

You do realize that the John Deere models sold at Home Depot and Lowes are made in a John Deere factory in Tennessee?   These models are also sold at John Deere dealers and they are in John Deere parts system, which means you can go to a dealer and order parts for them.  Also, a John Deere dealer will service and repair these models.  Yes, they're not as good in quality as the X-series John Deeres which are made in a JD plant in Horicon, Wisconsin, but they were designed to be either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Dan693

As to JD....sure you can buy parts at a JD dealer but they have 2 different lines of tractors from what I see. High end....for a  fortune.....and tin cans that are junk from the big box stores and are disposable.

Try to buy a JD part online......JD has it locked down tighter then a mafia racket. All roads lead to JD.

 

The thing that really made me wake up to JD was that the 2 I've had have all metric hardware.

America's Tractor........um ok.

Just a big marketing scam using the JD  badge to dupe the schmucks who don't look more than 2 inches in front of them. Exactly want they want.

 

Like my Dad.......if a turd had a ********** political sign on it he will allows vote for it no matter what. Sad.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
cleat

I am not arguing the quality point as I am obviously a Wheel Horse nut but Metric is the way of the world now.

 

Your new truck or car made by the big 3 are all metric top to bottom.

 

For the price I hope they are not total junk.

 

Cleat

  • Like 1
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Dan693

I disagree....the metric system of measurement is a foreign thing.

Its arguable but the US runs the world. The US dollar is the world standard and has been for 100 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...