Jump to content
JimmyJam

Sunstrand hydro... what fluid?

Recommended Posts

Hi! I have a 1968 Electro 12 with a Sunstrand hydro transmission. I acquired the tractor over a year ago, not running. I topped off the the tranny fluid w/ what I thought was ATF. Unknown what PO used (this tractor was so bastardized with repairs/maintenance's.). The hydro had no hoses or lift cylinder; the PO put large hex bolts into the tranny ports. I am going to purchase hoses from Lowell @wheelhorseman. What do I do?? Next? Original manual calls for 10w-30 oil for transmission. The Service Manual was updated in BOLD TYPE to use ATF type "A". Confusing???

 

 

0225181218.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also purchased an another Sundstrand transmission from Joe's Outdoor (He use to be a vendor here) as an alternative, just in case. ++ I have a 1973 "No-Name"  parts tractor with same tranny.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, JimmyJam said:

purchased an another Sundstrand transmission from Joe's Outdoor

Joe won't sell anything he hasn't tested so it should be a good one.             :handgestures-thumbupright:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought a Sundstrand unit (complete transaxle) from Joe several years ago and put it on a shelf with plans for it a little later (did not work out) and had a problem with the one in my C141, and when I went to install; the unit I got from Joe I drained the oil and did not like the gummy sludge that came out when I drained I it before installation. I split it to clean it out, & the first thing I found was the intake strainer in three pieces. Joe legitimately would not have known that, but when I tore into it and found the pump & motor plates in worse shape than the failed one I pulled from my tractor, (which he said he had tested and was "good operating condition") I immediately decided it had not been PROPERLY tested. It either had not been warmed up at all, or someone who knew nothing about testing one had done the test, or both. I then decided some of the gummy sludge must have been STP, or similar. There was no way that would have pulled its self up a small hill. 

 

All I can say in conclusion is you have to be careful on used units from unknown entities.   Ron

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ron. I did notice that a clearer fluid was leaking out of the Sunstrand that I got @ Joe's. Looked thinner than new motor oil. I didn't smell it to confirm what it might be. What I do know is that the Electro 12 I purchased was used for mowing a very large, hilly lot. PO probably never lifted the deck because he removed the lift cylinder and hoses and plugged the transmission ports with large hex bolts. He also converted the electric clutch to manual type. Which leads me to think he was abusing his machine by cobbling things together just to keep it running. I bought it near dead and not running. I wanted to salvage and revive the poor thing! 

Edited by JimmyJam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to run anyone down, just saying in that particular instance I felt someone dropped the ball on that particular deal. Not that I'm trying to defend him, but the volume of business he does, he has to have help, and we all know the quality of some of the help now-a-days. Ron

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most likely at one time the Electro's hoses went south and start leaking or one blew - a lot of hydraulic shops do not stock #4 & #5 ORB fittings to work on the WH cylinders and Sundstrand hyro units , so he blocked them off. The real question you have is to check those ports on that pump block very closely and look for signs of damage to the bottom of the hole as well as the ring area at the surface . There are o-rings that seal these ports on the hoses or factory plugs - if those ports are mangled, forget trying to seal it in the future. Also, there are some very specific valves and springs that control the lift cylinder pressure in that block - if they were not removed it may have damaged the pump already - you won't know for sure until it's fully warmed up and put under a load. Tied off to a tree or whatever, it should easily spin the tires in both directions with no whining or noises - it's common for them to get weak in reverse first and that's a sign of scored/worn parts internally. Some things in that pump can be repaired but for the most part you're better off going to a '73 or later pump unit. The later type is a piston to piston pump that is serviceable and parts are available for it . Everything basically bolts up the same as well with the direction control and such. It is possible that yours has the smaller #4 ports, it will just take a set of hoses with 2 different size ends to address that.

 

The later version pump was used in any older model that had a failed hydrogear - this was part of a dealer bulletin when the pump design was changed some time in late '72 or so...common to see older machines with the newer style pump. I never recommend anyone buying a used hydrogear unless it's free - they really cannot be rebuilt or serviced much, so it's a dead end. Far better off with the more plentiful later model pump anyway.

 

Sarge

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the years i have accumulated several pumps and motors for D's.  Most all came from "Good Working Tractors".  Upon opening and exam it is wonder the tractor could drive itself to the junk yard.

 

If the PO operated it with the lift hose ports blocked and didn't remove the implement relief valve and move the charge pump relief that would be the equivalent of running the lift to the end of the stoke and continuing to hold the valve open. 

 

It is worth opening it up and looking at the slippers and piston block.  if they are in decent shape then you could go ahead dress them up a bit, check the acceleration valves, clean things up put in new seals and it may work well for you. If the slippers and piston block are badly worm/scarred then you have to assume the gear motor is also been hurt and it is time for a total replacement

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @Sarge and @pfrederi!!! This is my first experience with a WH hydro, so what you are telling me sounds like a foreign language to me... I am a hydro Newbie! I just printed up the appropriate Sundstrand Service manual. My Electro 12 is, I believe is a 1968 according to ID tag, but the Kohler K301 tag appears to be a 1969. Transitional year's model or transplant??? The Sundstrand transmission I bought from Joe's Outdoor is the the same Sundstrand but different serial # (obviously), which I have noticed leaking a very clear liquid, thinner than new motor oil (haven't done sniff test) while it is sitting on bench. Hmmm? The good news is that I acquired a 1973 "No Name" Automatic 12 roller. Thinking of swapping that Sundstrand and lift cylinder out. Thoughts? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be worthwhile to at least bolt up and test both of those older hydrogear units - they are tougher than most will give them credit for...

The unit from the '73 Auto is the newer model piston to piston pump and should be a direct swap.

 

Sarge

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2018 at 10:01 AM, Sarge said:

It would be worthwhile to at least bolt up and test both of those older hydrogear units - they are tougher than most will give them credit for...

So @Sarge, I drained ATF from my Electro12 (I saw it had been leaking due the fact the PO must have used Form-a-Gasket on hydro-pump). So I removed the entire hydro-pump. My question is Where do I find a replacement gasket so I can mount the hydro-gear from Joe's Outdoor (to see if it works)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@wheelhorseman

He should have it . If someone used rtv on that hydro that is a real problem  - might want to check out the pickup screen very closely for any debris. No silicone should ever be used around a hydrostatic transmission.

 

Sarge

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That you found form-a-gasket in a Hydro it means who ever was in there before didn't have a clue what he was doing. in addition to Sarges advice about the screen i would pull the acceleration valves.  the ports in them are minuscule and easily plugged by stray form-a-gasket bits.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well I took the original hydro gear off. So much junk! Form-a-Gasket bits everywhere. No wonder it leaked and barely creeped forward/reverse!!!

 

 

0310180919a.jpg

 

PO was a hack. OOOpps did I say that out loud???  :huh::bitch:

 

 

Edited by JimmyJam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd hate to see what has gotten sucked into the pump at this point. You're going to be deep into the manual just to clean it out. The good news is there are parts available to fix any damage caused,  just going to take some time and care.

 

Sarge

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good news is that RTV will not do permanent damage to slippers or valve plates...just plugs stuff up

 

What did the suction screen in the transaxle look like?

 

"Put down the RTV and step away from the hydro" should be labeled on every hydro unit.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well the Sundstrand #90-2046 that I got from Joe's Outdoor continues to leak clear, thin oil; I did the smell test. No odor at all. Thinking it's mineral oil. I guess after I order the gasket #5955 which is  NLA and replaced by possibly Toro part #102759 from ??? (who, other than Toro)???, I should once again flush the system with ATF. Anyone have any  preferences as to what ATF they use? I will buy by the gallon, because it's cheaper that way to flush. Anyone use Tractor Supply "Traveller" ATF?

Edited by JimmyJam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have used both Wally World and TSC.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @pfrederi!! TSC is just up the road from me and I use the Neighbor's Rewards all the time. I avoid Wally World as much as possible... to the point of boycotting them. I feel they are monopolizing the retail industry. I would rather go out of my way to shop @ a mom & pop hardware store than go to Wally's World. BTW: I have 2 Super Walmarts in my town just a few miles apart. What? NO!!!! Will not go! Just my opinion!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By ebinmaine
      I know I've touched on this before and I can't find the thread. So, thank you in advance for humoring me in my lack of ability to operate my phone.
       
      What I'm trying to do is figure out which donor frames from what years and standard or automatic transmissions would be the right one to use for my 1974 c-160. I'd like to have a spare frame that I can clean up and paint and then start transferring parts from the one that I have.
       
      If I remember correctly, the late 60s tractor and the B series up to 1975 were considered mid-length. C Series and later B series were considered long frame?
       
       
    • By 1.big.l
      hi guys and gals
      im new to this forum and a new owner to a used 1970 wheelhorse electro 12 model # 1-7255
      i paid 20$ for it off some guy knew nothing about it nor did i try and see if it ran. what caught my attention was the hydraulic deck lift and i wanted it!!! so i brought it home cleaned everything up to find out mickey mouse had a nest behind the gas tank and a few wires were chewed. i also noticed a few switches and a flasher relay in there. I think someone hacked it all up. and i dont think this tractor had any of them but i want to get rid of the useless garbage and re wire this whole thing the way its suppose to be. ive searched everywhere and cant find a wiring diagram anywhere!!! also maybe someone can tell me what these controls do? i know the big white switch is head lights and obviously the key is ignition and start and the big knob to the left is the choke but thats all i know. the little metal switch is an on/off switch to what i dont know and the one next to it is a 3 position switch in to i dont know. and the white in the top right has a flasher relay connected to it. If someone can tel me what belongs there and what doesnt i think it will make more sence. Like if there doesnt need to be a fuse in the circuit like the 69 charger diagram ive been seeing then ill re wire it accordingly. But then i see brake lights in a diagram its all a mess! I dont know what belongs and what doesnt
       
      im also missing misc. parts like the mule drive which i know, boogey wheels and im missing a cover that goes ontop of where the shifter would go if it was a 3-4 speed. can anyone tell me what the plate is called so i can try and find it on ebay?
       
      thanks for your help i will answer any questions oupload any pictures you want to help better your response
       
      by the way!!!! this has a foot throttle conversion before anyone says anything about the trottle missing. it does have the electric pto. and i know the fuse holder is broken.
       
       

    • By redhorserider
      1968 electro 12.  In really good condition. No rust. I've owned it for 2 years now. Starts runs mows plows. I use her all year long no problems.  48"deck 48"plow with tire chains.  All hydraulic hoses replaced last year. Wiper seal replaced in hydraulic 2way valve for up down. Fixed the leaky triangular seal on the trans already. Posi traction. New deck belt this year. New battery this year. From what i can tell most of the parts are there other than the obvious missing headlight lens and hood ornament. Well and the red paint  I replaced one pulley on the belt tensioner. Has a small oil leak. Could use new tires but never bothered me.  Could use a little tlc and i just don't have the time anymore with a new baby at home. I also know there's someone on here with a lot more knowledge and know how that can take care of her and appreciate her more then i ever could. (The tractor not the baby lol)  I got the price from people on here so that's a starting point only. I am definitely open to offers so don't hesitate to ask. Worse case scenario im gonna keep her as my plow horse and go buy a new cutter so i don't have to keep switching the 2. Heavier duty and hydraulic lift really making plowing fun. 
       






    • By JimmyJam
      I am looking for the complete control package for a hydro-lift for my Electro 12 with a Sunstrand tranny.
    • By three50seven
      I recently acquired a nice Electro 12 with no attachments. I don't plan on using it as my main mowing machine, but I would like to have a deck anyway. I have a newer 36" SD attach-a-matic deck. Would it be easier to sell/trade this deck and find a correct deck for the Electro, or convert the Electro to accept the attach-a-matic implements? I've heard the conversion is not that difficult.
×