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snowhound

Hydro cold weather operation

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I read somewhere that you should warm-up a hydro before using in cold weather I assume that means to start the tractor and engage the hydro but leave it in the neutral position and let it run for 10 or 15 min.   Am I correct in that assumption?

 

Ed

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It is a good idea to run the hydro for at least 5 minutes, some don't even work for a bit in cold weather.

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You have it correct.  Eaton hydros especially will frequently not want to operate the lift for a time when cold....

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It is a good idea to let the hydro run for a while before driving off with it. It will let you know when it's ready to go. Operates smoothly when ready. 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

You have it correct.  Eaton hydros especially will frequently not want to operate the lift for a time when cold....

And it does not need to be very cold either.

 

My HC even in the heated garage at 10C (50F) needs a minute or so before lift will operate.

 

Cleat

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3 hours ago, snowhound said:

start the tractor and engage the hydro but leave it in the neutral position and let it run for 10 or 15 min

I keep the 418-C with Eaton hydro backed in so I can start it, drive out of the garage and then close the door (don't want all those fumes inside) while it warms up, only takes a couple of minutes and it's ready to go.

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You can let a Hydro warm up as stated before- but you can also sit on the Tractor, start it, engage the Hydro in neutral & listen- it will change sound and engine will pull down when it's pumping & ready to go- Al

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Yes, you can tell when it's ready as the engine will change tone a bit as illinilefttackle said.

 

Cleat

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For what it's worth, I find this info to be quite interesting. My 416-H with an Eaton 1100, equipped with a 48" plow, sits outside in the winter covered with just a vinyl cover. I don't wait at all to use it. I started the engine a couple of weeks ago when the temperature had been below 10 for a couple of days. As soon as the engine started and I was confident that oil was circulating in the engine (about 15 seconds), I engaged the forward motion control, lifted and dropped the blade, and proceeded to plow snow with no problems. I have never had to let that transmission warm up to have full power. Tell me if I am doing something wrong. Am I damaging something in the hydro system by using it that quickly?

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The directions for my log splitter say to run the ram through at least three cycles without splitting a piece of wood when cold. That way the hydraulic oil can circulate with a little bit of friction to begin warming the oil. I would think that raising and lowering the blade on a tractor a few times might provide the same exercise. Engaging the motion lever/pedal is probably harder on the tractor with cold oil (synthetic would be better due to smaller molecules) on the tight passages of the transmissions.

 

 

Edited by shallowwatersailor

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I  have never warmed up my Sundstrands, nor have I ever disengaged my hydro.'s to start them. Hakuna shida No problems   Ron

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16 minutes ago, R. L. Addison said:

never warmed up my Sundstrands

True!  Eatons seem to take a minute or two for the lift to work, but a good Sundstrand will lift and go right away.

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Mine (520) will definitely bog the engine down and even kill it at lower temps when it kicks in. Once it kicks in lookout snow! Nobody mentioned what oil they are running I would guess that would matter. I run Mob 1 synthetic 10w30 just because @shallowwatersailor does and  he's had Eatons lots longer than I. :)

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I have a sundstrand in my C160 with moble 1 synthetic. And last week I started it in 10 degree temp. Raised plow and sat for 1 min and  went out the door. There was no hesitation at all. It's always lifted and drive immediately .

As 953nut says mine goes forward right now.

 

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11 minutes ago, WHX14 said:

Nobody mentioned what oil they are running I would guess that would matter. I run Mob 1 synthetic 10w30 just because @shallowwatersailor does and  he's had Eatons lots longer than I. :)

I'm a Castrol GTX man myself, when I first got the anniversary 20 years ago, first few years was standard dino juice never really had any issues with cold hydro lift or drive but usually let it warm up a couple minutes before going WOT and snow blowing, now I use the High Mileage formula blended dino/synthetic Castrol engine and hydro, plus Toro hydro filter , Jeff.

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I am with the Sundstrand guys for winter use. I have three Electro/Chargers for snow duty.   Will pick up the blade/blower immediately so i can get them outside and let them warm up for just a couple minutes.  I run Wally World ATF in all three.

 

I used to use the 418A Eaton for snowblowing but It wold take forever to decide it was ready to lift the blower.  I have to maneuver a bit to get out of the shop and she didn't steer well with blower down...clipped the back of my truck once getting out blower down.  Based on some comments here I switched to Mobil 1...No discernible difference ...certainly not enough to justify the expense.

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I run Mobil 1 in my Sunstrand and Eaton with Napa 1410 filters. Eaton works right off the bat cold. I run Synthetic for the high heat capability more than the cold weather operation.

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17 hours ago, rmaynard said:

...416-H with an Eaton 1100...

 

I forgot to mention that I use the Napa 1410 filter and Walmart's store brand full-synthetic 10w-30.

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Later model piston~piston pumps - 10W30 Mobil One. Older hydrogears, ATF or whatever was in it when I got it - never an issue. It is a good idea to give that pump a chance to create a bit of heat before working the snot out of it - or any mechanical parts that are powered , for that matter. I would never run an engine under a load until it can build some heat in extreme cold - it's just wearing parts faster when you do that. Modern tight-tolence engines use much thinner oil and are built specifically not to be idled and warmed up - my Hemi is that way and won't really build heat until it's driven under a load, just it's nature. Old, heavy cast iron engines and such need a little care and time to get happy in their operating temperature - it's a rule I've followed all my life and have gotten some crazy hours of service as a result.

 

One word of caution - especially with the older models that used the Sundstrand and the common slider for the direction control along with that long handle. Never, ever get off that seat with it running and the hydro engaged - they are highly known for running off on their own without the operator. With vibration , those direction control handles can vibrate forward from the weight of the lever - and away it goes alone.

Due to weight/power/traction of these things they can do some serious damage , lol. I learned the hard way the first time one of mine went out the door of the shed alone, blade down and headed east at full speed without me on the seat - while I was in the house looking out the window. It finally got stuck wayyy out in the back yard by the time I got outside after pushing snow/ice out of it's way for almost 200 feet. After digging it out the lesson was learned , luckily it missed the 3 vehicles sitting out there. If you don't want to sit on it - lift those rear tires well off the ground on a stable set of stands or something - I've done that in super cold weather past -20*F with mine.

 

Just give 'em some time to heat up - use gently for the first 10 minutes or so and your equipment will last a very long time. Don't leave them at a low idle - Kohlers don't oil that well at low rpm's - they are happier warming up around 1500-2000rpm after being started. Use the proper oil rated for that given temperature - 30W straight oil won't move well below 32*F, so follow the book and use the correct weight/type .

 

Sarge

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2 hours ago, Sarge said:

Later model piston~piston pumps - 10W30 Mobil One. Older hydrogears, ATF or whatever was in it when I got it - never an issue. It is a good idea to give that pump a chance to create a bit of heat before working the snot out of it - or any mechanical parts that are powered , for that matter. I would never run an engine under a load until it can build some heat in extreme cold - it's just wearing parts faster when you do that. Modern tight-tolence engines use much thinner oil and are built specifically not to be idled and warmed up - my Hemi is that way and won't really build heat until it's driven under a load, just it's nature. Old, heavy cast iron engines and such need a little care and time to get happy in their operating temperature - it's a rule I've followed all my life and have gotten some crazy hours of service as a result.

 

One word of caution - especially with the older models that used the Sundstrand and the common slider for the direction control along with that long handle. Never, ever get off that seat with it running and the hydro engaged - they are highly known for running off on their own without the operator. With vibration , those direction control handles can vibrate forward from the weight of the lever - and away it goes alone.

Due to weight/power/traction of these things they can do some serious damage , lol. I learned the hard way the first time one of mine went out the door of the shed alone, blade down and headed east at full speed without me on the seat - while I was in the house looking out the window. It finally got stuck wayyy out in the back yard by the time I got outside after pushing snow/ice out of it's way for almost 200 feet. After digging it out the lesson was learned , luckily it missed the 3 vehicles sitting out there. If you don't want to sit on it - lift those rear tires well off the ground on a stable set of stands or something - I've done that in super cold weather past -20*F with mine.

 

Just give 'em some time to heat up - use gently for the first 10 minutes or so and your equipment will last a very long time. Don't leave them at a low idle - Kohlers don't oil that well at low rpm's - they are happier warming up around 1500-2000rpm after being started. Use the proper oil rated for that given temperature - 30W straight oil won't move well below 32*F, so follow the book and use the correct weight/type .

 

Sarge

:text-yeahthat:

 

Wanted to clear some snow from in front of the shop yesterday.  Ran the Charger 12 out the door left her to warm up.   always drop the blade and put it up against a snow pile.  I don't care how many times you do the "neutral adjustment: temperature, engine speed, vibration, whatever they all will sometimes creep.  Went out after a few minutes and she had dug two nice holes as both rear wheels slowly turned   Guess the 10 pinon did its job:P..

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I always set the parking brake on the 520's

 

Do the sunstrands not have a parking brake ?

 

Cleat

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3 hours ago, cleat said:

I always set the parking brake on the 520's

 

Do the sunstrands not have a parking brake ?

 

Cleat

Setting the parking brake disconnects the hydro drive belt so it doesn't warm up:(

 

i think very late model Sundstrands has physical brakes not  Chargers Electros or early D series

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I remember years ago mowing grass for my Grandfather (likely around 1975 or so).

 

He had a cheap rear engine rider (Murray I think).

 

Well, I was mowing a rather steep hill on the side of the ramp up to the hay mow in the barn.

 

I went to change gears then it suddenly took off down the hill with no way to stop it.

 

Brake was only applied when transmission was in a gear and when it took.off all it would do is grind gears trying to engage one.

 

I just held onto it until it came to the bottom of the hill then cranked it hard onto the driveway.

 

At that point it slowed and stopped.

 

Weird machine, I learned to leave it in a gear when on a hill from that point on.

 

 

 

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